name that form

[tigdra]

my instructor has a habit of not telling us the names of the forms we are learning can anyone tell me the name of the form I am describing.

1st form very basic seen other school do it almost identically. I will discribe the form without the stances like gong bu, etc.

Start salutation
1. step to left, face forward and cross both hands right over left in front of groin area
2. lift arms up to face level (still crossing hands) fists are at head area and elbows pointing upwards.
3. open arms out shoulder hidth in a vertival (sun) punch position to both sides
4. left arm comes into chamber as you turn your body towards the left as you right arm swings towards the left wall in a veritcal punch
5. execute a right heel front kick towards same wall while simultaneously executing a left vertical punch
6. land forward (towards the wall you kick to) as you execute a right veritcal punch.
7. now facing what was the rear wall (opposite one that you did you sallutation) repeat steps 1-6 on opposite side (low cross block, bring hands up and open out, left punch, left kick and right punch, land forwards left punch)

I would really appreciate if someone could tell me the name of the form and what type of style teaches this form. I know that northern shaolin teaches these forms but it would be great if I had the name.

I would be happy to explain more of the form if anyone needs more details.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Can't you ask your instructor?

 

[tigdra]

I have and he gives me some an awnser like "it small plum blossom or something...quit bothering me it is not important." so I awnser "yes sifu, sorry"

I would push the subject but I don't want to piss off my teacher.

 

[clfsean]

What are you studying?

 

[Nebuchadnezzar]

I have and he gives me some an awnser like "it small plum blossom or something...quit bothering me it is not important." so I awnser "yes sifu, sorry"

I would push the subject but I don't want to piss off my teacher.

That kind of answer and I would say "See ya!" In my opinion, if he can't tell you what it is, or can't be bothered telling you, he doesn't know what it is either. :soapbox:

 

[pstarr]

I'd have some serious reservations about an instructor who doesn't even know the name of a form he's teaching (which is probably why he won't tell you the name of it)...

 

[tigdra]

he knows the names he just does it so none of his students become techers themselves

 

[clfsean]

he knows the names he just does it so none of his students become techers themselves

Then it's time to go if he's that selfish...

 

[Jade Tigress]

he knows the names he just does it so none of his students become techers themselves

I think that's a shame. Do you have any other training options? You are being short-changed.

 

[funnytiger]

I'm jumping on the bandwagon with this one... you are being hoodwinked... bamboozled... run-a-muck... you get the idea.

JT, I LOVE your sig!!!

 

[tigdra]

i appreciate all of your concern but really guys does anyone know this form. I am pretty sure he tells his students the names once they become a black sash.

 

[Hand Sword]

Sorry, I don't know the name, However, I have never heard of any such foolishness from an instructor. I would take the advise above and find another school. Waiting 'til Black Sash? Please!

 

[pstarr]

In my five decades of martial arts, I've never heard of a teacher who withheld the name of a form until the student reached black belt level. Has he revealed the name of the style you're learning? That'd be a big help insofar as identifying the name of a form...

My guess is:

(A). He doesn't know the name(s) or
(B). He's making it all up.

Either way, he's not what I would consider a good instructor at all. If I were you, I'd find another school - pronto.

If he has issues with any of his pupils eventually becoming teachers, he has a serious problem and should not be teaching anyone. A real martial arts instructor spends a lot of time praying that MANY of his or her students will eventually become teachers.

You have to ask yourself "why?"

And then find a proper instructor.

 

[clfsean]

In my five decades of martial arts, I've never heard of a teacher who withheld the name of a form until the student reached black belt level.

Only 2.5 decades, but same thing here. Names are history, identifiers of more than just a bunch of moves strung together, etc...

Has he revealed the name of the style you're learning? That'd be a big help insofar as identifying the name of a form...

Asked the same question. No response. I saw on the profile "Chinese Kenpo" ...

My guess is:

(A). He doesn't know the name(s) or
(B). He's making it all up.

a) Yep
b) Sounds likely but to what degree... no idea.

Either way, he's not what I would consider a good instructor at all. If I were you, I'd find another school - pronto.

Ditto

If he has issues with any of his pupils eventually becoming teachers, he has a serious problem and should not be teaching anyone. A real martial arts instructor spends a lot of time praying that MANY of his or her students will eventually become teachers.

I know all of mine have & have all said the little prayer that we exceed them in all aspects of our MA careers/lives.

You have to ask yourself "why?"

Yep

And then find a proper instructor.

On the double time...

 

[bydand]

RUN, do not walk to the nearest exit! If the instructor witholds the names of the form, you have to ask yourself what else is being witheld? If it is a method to keep their students from becoming instructors, then witholding the proper form would be a better bet than just the name, find someone else to train under.

 

[funnytiger]

It should also be pointed out that this method is in no way traditional. So don't let him lie to you by telling you this is the way it is done.

 

[oxy]

What I am about to say is going to make me look like a fraud and/or a bad teacher and is going to make most people on this thread pissed off at me.

Is there any importance for teachers to teach the name of the form?

Maybe it's my ignorance but I have not heard of anyone who progresses faster and/or solidly simply by knowing the name of a form.

While I would not fully agree with ANY teaching method that requires withholding trivial information such as names, I still wouldn't judge a martial arts instructor purely on that fact alone. Thus, the comments about this particular instructor seems really reactionary and not at all rational.

As an instructor myself (and having seen my father as an instructor), I have seen that students can be taught successfully without knowing the name. In my father's school, we refrain from teaching the names of the forms or even the moves within a form (except for the fundamental things like stances and such) for two reasons:

1) Translations are not always accurate.
2) Teaching people either name (ie, in english or chinese) can be a distraction.

And, me hypocritically judging by some of the comments on this thread, I would say my father's school's reasoning in point #2 seems proven.

Personally, I would not want any student who would be so impatient as to leave the school over such a trivial matter as the name of a form. It says to me that the student cares more about external image (such as the ability to dazzle people with your knowledge of names) rather than a full dedication to knuckle down and practicing the form till they sweat enough to stop Australia's drought in search of perfection.

Like some has said, my father's school also aims to produce instructors who can produce instructors (two generations for those counting). I have seen the success of teaching students to focus on the relevant knowledge and the failings of a student who became wrapped up in terminology despite the school's overriding philosophy to teach otherwise.

 

[funnytiger]

I'm going to be blunt and say, with this kind of attitude, why bother learning anything? Why bother learning the name of the states? Trivial. Why bother learning the names of your body parts? So long as you can point to them, who cares right?

Some have stated it already, but this speaks loudly of someone who doesn't know the terminology (which is important for communicating between martial artists) and has made an effort to erradicate it in an effort to not look uninformed.

No offense.

What I am about to say is going to make me look like a fraud and/or a bad teacher and is going to make most people on this thread pissed off at me.

Is there any importance for teachers to teach the name of the form?

Maybe it's my ignorance but I have not heard of anyone who progresses faster and/or solidly simply by knowing the name of a form.

While I would not fully agree with ANY teaching method that requires withholding trivial information such as names, I still wouldn't judge a martial arts instructor purely on that fact alone. Thus, the comments about this particular instructor seems really reactionary and not at all rational.

As an instructor myself (and having seen my father as an instructor), I have seen that students can be taught successfully without knowing the name. In my father's school, we refrain from teaching the names of the forms or even the moves within a form (except for the fundamental things like stances and such) for two reasons:

1) Translations are not always accurate.
2) Teaching people either name (ie, in english or chinese) can be a distraction.

And, me hypocritically judging by some of the comments on this thread, I would say my father's school's reasoning in point #2 seems proven.

Personally, I would not want any student who would be so impatient as to leave the school over such a trivial matter as the name of a form. It says to me that the student cares more about external image (such as the ability to dazzle people with your knowledge of names) rather than a full dedication to knuckle down and practicing the form till they sweat enough to stop Australia's drought in search of perfection.

Like some has said, my father's school also aims to produce instructors who can produce instructors (two generations for those counting). I have seen the success of teaching students to focus on the relevant knowledge and the failings of a student who became wrapped up in terminology despite the school's overriding philosophy to teach otherwise.

 

[clfsean]

What I am about to say is going to make me look like a fraud and/or a bad teacher and is going to make most people on this thread pissed off at me.

Nah... it's your approach that does/not piss people off. Me personally... I'm ok with it. Straight shooting & matter of fact.

Is there any importance for teachers to teach the name of the form?

Yep. For a huge variety of reasons. Some are:

-- number of forms in system make it prohibative to not name them
-- number of forms based on common ground (bat gwa, sap ji, moi fa, law horn, etc...)
-- names are a descriptive recognizing factor for performance & intent
-- establishes common ground between schools of same style

etc...

Maybe it's my ignorance but I have not heard of anyone who progresses faster and/or solidly simply by knowing the name of a form.

Me neither... but would you take a class in college if it simply said... "Required" with no other descriptor?

While I would not fully agree with ANY teaching method that requires withholding trivial information such as names, I still wouldn't judge a martial arts instructor purely on that fact alone. Thus, the comments about this particular instructor seems really reactionary and not at all rational.

Nope... if a person can't/won't tell me what I'm doing or why, then what are they hiding or missing?

As an instructor myself (and having seen my father as an instructor), I have seen that students can be taught successfully without knowing the name. In my father's school, we refrain from teaching the names of the forms or even the moves within a form (except for the fundamental things like stances and such) for two reasons:

How many forms are taught with LHBF?

1) Translations are not always accurate.

Nope, but a close approximation or at least number is workable

2) Teaching people either name (ie, in english or chinese) can be a distraction.

So give them the name in Chinese, an English alternative & easily used identifying name for class. Nobody has suggest that Mandarin and/or Cantonese is taught as part of the curriculum.

And, me hypocritically judging by some of the comments on this thread, I would say my father's school's reasoning in point #2 seems proven.

Well... you'd know... we wouldn't. But I imagine if somebody asked, you'd be inclined to give the name of a set.

Personally, I would not want any student who would be so impatient as to leave the school over such a trivial matter as the name of a form. It says to me that the student cares more about external image (such as the ability to dazzle people with your knowledge of names) rather than a full dedication to knuckle down and practicing the form till they sweat enough to stop Australia's drought in search of perfection.

Me neither, but then again I wouldn't want an instructor to hold anything back from me because of the reasons stated already in the original post while I'm sweating enough to soak the Outback either. If the instructor can't share a simple thing as a name, then why bother? What else will be held back because my accent or understanding of Chinese might not make it Beijing perfect?

Like some has said, my father's school also aims to produce instructors who can produce instructors (two generations for those counting). I have seen the success of teaching students to focus on the relevant knowledge and the failings of a student who became wrapped up in terminology despite the school's overriding philosophy to teach otherwise.

So have I, but I've seen plenty of schools that produced compentent instructors that have a working knowledge of Chinese (M/C) to be able to teach the names of the forms, terminology, histories, etc... without being dsitracted or without holding information back.

 

[oxy]

I'm going to be blunt and say, with this kind of attitude, why bother learning anything? Why bother learning the name of the states? Trivial. Why bother learning the names of your body parts? So long as you can point to them, who cares right?

In no way do I intend "this attitude" to be used for ANY sort of learning. Just in relevant areas where such terminology are not entirely useful. In medical education and computer sciences, for example, terminology can be a matter of life and death.

In other kinds of learning, like sports or physical activities, it's not at all important.

Some have stated it already, but this speaks loudly of someone who doesn't know the terminology (which is important for communicating between martial artists) and has made an effort to erradicate it in an effort to not look uninformed.

No offense.

Well, let me be the first to admit that I do not know most of the terminology in LHBF and I follow my father's school's way of teaching just to hide the fact that I do not know the terminology. I'm not being sarcastic. I've lived in Australia too long for me to remember non-basic Cantonese.

When I did use to teach, I had a student who was around 11 years old. His father, who trained in traditional forms of karate, is almost always there to observe me teach the kid. Maybe my emotional radar is on the fritz, but it seems the kid's father respects my way of teaching (not to mention a university researcher I also teach later on that day).

In an ideal world, the argument that it is "important for communicating between martial artists" is a strong one. In real application, it's much weaker. First, there is no standardisation of terminology (I know I used the word terminology, but I use it more leaning towards "names of forms"). Second (and I also get confused by this) many schools translates things just a little bit different from many other schools.