Do tell...
My son's Weapons and Kata
- Thread starter CB Jones
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Headhunter
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Agree that's why I think kata competition is a waste if time. Kata is fine but most top level competitors kata looks ridiculous and breaks every rule their martial art teaches just so they can look flashy and score points. All kata should be based on realism not winning a silly trophy. My instructor always said trophies were just quick fixes, they look cool and pump up your ego for a couple days but apart from that they're worthless and you're sacrificing your martial arts skill for a trophy.What you are saying makes sense, but forms competition is about showmanship, and there are just, flat out, some things you do for show, when attempting to win a Kata division.
I have always been turned off when I see a martial arts school with a load of trophies in their storefront window. It tells me where their priority is. Nothing wrong with it, but not what I'm into.
Just two ways of doing something, your eyes are faster, my head turn is faster - same result - we vanquish the beejesus out of the guy coming at us. (silly him)
It's an and, and I doubt you are that exaggerated during the course of a fight, but I will take your word for it.
I've always been the same way. I've known some excellent instructors who taught at some of those schools, but I was just never interested in training there. I was probably 30 before I even comprehended why anyone would. I'm a slow learner, sometimes.
It's an and, and I doubt you are that exaggerated during the course of a fight, but I will take your word for it.
What I was referring to was the eyes turning first, and that being more combat effective. The eye turn is too slow, in my opinion.
I referred to the eyes leading the head. They naturally start turning before the head and stay ahead of it most of the turn, just as the head starts before the body and stays ahead of it most of the turn.
It's more a, you notice motion, and just go, thing. Action is faster than reaction; so, since you are already in motion, you pretty much do it all at the same time. I don't mean, look with the eyes, pause, and go. I meant they start the process, unless of course you heard something.
Even in the orientation response, the eyes turn faster than the whole head, so they will start first and end first.It's more a, you notice motion, and just go, thing. Action is faster than reaction; so, since you are already in motion, you pretty much do it all at the same time. I don't mean, look with the eyes, pause, and go. I meant they start the process, unless of course you heard something.
I disagree.
I would imagine so, now that you mention it, but I was making a funny.
What part do you disagree with?
LOL
Context mostly. The turning of the head in what started the discussion was in a kata, specifically (as I see it) when a threat is approaching from the side. I suppose if the threat was approaching slowly, it might be a different story, but I even doubt that.
In orientation response it's only in slower things, things that aren't quick enough to trigger a startle response. When startled, your head snaps towards the threat. It leads the eyes because it's faster. The only thing the eyes can do quicker is blink.
But they eyes are rotating within that movement. If they remained fixed, they'd arrive on-target at exactly the same time as the head. They won't cover the same number of degrees independently, but if they move 1/3 as fast, they'll cover 80 degrees while the head covers 60 (the head supplying 60 of the 80 degrees). They are less massive, so their inertia should give them an earlier start in the movement. The only way I could see the head getting ahead of them would be if the muscles controlling the eyes can't keep up with the force generated by the head's movement, and I find that unlikely (though I have nothing but my own estimation to back that).
- Thread Starter
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I can see it both ways.
Too me when you think of it within the OODA Loop you would turn your head first before turning your body
Observe - stimuli that draws your attention (attacker approaching)
Orient - focus of your eyes on stimuli (attacker)
Decide - decide course of action (flight or fight). Strategy that will be used.
Action - act on decision
I could see turning your head addressing the threat and turning and acting after you have made the decision of the course of action to take.
Too me when you think of it within the OODA Loop you would turn your head first before turning your body
Observe - stimuli that draws your attention (attacker approaching)
Orient - focus of your eyes on stimuli (attacker)
Decide - decide course of action (flight or fight). Strategy that will be used.
Action - act on decision
I could see turning your head addressing the threat and turning and acting after you have made the decision of the course of action to take.
I'm enjoying this discussion.
So..
The hand is quicker than the eye.
Action is quicker than reaction.
Ergo- If I punch first, you shouldn't be able to slip that punch. (if it's in your repertoire) but you will many times.
I know it's a straw man argument, but how else was I going to get to use the word ergo?
Actually - the eye runs slightly slower than the turn of the head. Less than ten milliseconds. Interestingly enough, when the head snaps either right or left, the eyes move slightly in the opposite direction in order to keep focus within the center of the field of vision.