My Short Workout

Discussion in 'Boxing/Kickboxing' started by raw-power.eu, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    underlined it for you, though why you can't remember what you posts a few mins ago ?
     
  2. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    let's try it another way seems as your not grasping it, force is measure in newton metres, your read out is not in newton's its in kg, therefore on any definition it isn't measuring force, it measuring mass, kg being the si measurement for mass and not for force. this is akin to you arguing that a volt metre measures amps because there both electricity
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  3. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    I know my English is not good but why did not you read that sentence to the end? I typed BUT in uppercase to show you how is the impact force interpreted. You clearly did not understand it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  4. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    In our world there are hundreds of forces (and maybe more). You even do a school mistake in your words! You typed "newton metres" - this value is used for example by torques. The RAW-POWER Force Sensor is NOT a torque. The kilograms or pounds are resultant of transducer (type of force sensor). The force applied is converted to the kilograms / pounds.

    Please ask a friend who has experience in physics. I would like to talk about the use of device such as the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. I believe that thanks to feedback, everyone can adapt their training and look for weak points in stance, weight transfer, target penetration ...
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  5. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    ok iI bow out, you asK for feed back, but are not receptive to feed back that isn't undiluted praise.

    to b clear I think that is a useful object for measuring development, as you outline above, but I think your publicity needs to b clear about what IT IS measuring, and specifically that you can't make any useful comparisons witH " FORCE" measured on more sophisticate devices or the figures oft quoted on the interne as being good for certain martial arts or you will be getting a considerable number of returns once the truth dawns on them that they are punching harder than Mike tyson
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  6. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    I am also glad for negative reactions, but not for nonsense talk. On the market there are force measuring devices whose output is a unit of weight. I still do not understand why you think that is not true. From my point of view - the kilograms / pounds are far best unit for device like this. If you ask hundreds of people if they know anything about the Newton unit, 95 of them will not tell you anything. if you tell them that your stroke is 100 N, no one will know how much is it. BUT! Everyone knows kilograms / pounds and everyone can imagine how much is 100 kg (220 lb) stroke. I hope it is clearer now.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    because you are not measuring acceleration, there for you are not measuring force, it really can't be clearer than that, therefore you cant make comparisons with devices that included an acceleration meter, you could measure in Newton's and convert that to lbs force ( lbf), ( or even kg force if you want to make up your own units) if you want a more obvious measure that people can relate to. but as your not measuring acceleration, your not measuring in Newton's and you can't do that

    I'm bored of explaining it to you, which takes some doing, but you are totally blind to the defects in your product,

    here a college explanation for you , you notice it makes considerable mention if acceleration, an important factor you are totally ignoring
    What is the Formula for Force? - Definition & Explanation - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    oops the quote function went a bit wild !

    to put in context, if the acceleration is .5 ms/s then those figures are 100% ou and your 200 is only a 100, if it's 1.5 ms/s then they are a third to low and it should be 300, with ou that info the figures you get are meaningless to use for comparison
    and that's ignoring the glaring error that its the mass of the target object you should be using to calculate and not the mass of the striker, that can only be USed tocalculate energy( power) and not force
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  9. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Ask physics. He will explain it for you.

    Very simply:
    Force = Acceleration & Mass
    -> Acceleration = stance + speed of an arm + power (and many more factors)
    -> Mass = body weight + body weight transfer (and many more factors)
    -> Force Sensor = kilograms / pounds (Acceleration & Mass include!)

    If you speak Czech, I can give you a study work from college :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  10. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    f
    force equals mass( of the target object, not the person punching it) x acceleration of the target object. neither of which your are measuring
    ke equals a half x mass of the person punching x velocity sqaured

    one of which your device is measuring, but your not calculating energy either, if you were measuring energ you could convert it to force, but your not

    so in plain terms what is it measuring ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
  11. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    I do not know what you are reading, but find a better source. You obviously do not know anything about physics!
     
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  12. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    This could just be a language translation thing, but smoothing a signal and detecting a peak are mutually exclusive...

    To smooth a signal you clip the peaks and raise the troughs.

    To detect a peak you don't smooth, you essentially high pass filter it (only keep the very highest signal).

    An analogue version of this is something like a damped pressure gauge - the needle movement is damped to remove the short term peaks and troughs, slowing the movement enough to read it rather than it jumping about with every pulse of a pump. That's smoothed and it destroys peak readings.

    An old fashioned telltale rev counter is a peak reading instrument - a secondary needle is unsprung so stays at the highest figure recorded. If you smooth that 'signal' it's worthless because it never reaches the real peaks.

    I haven't watched the video or looked into your prospective product at all, but I hope you're not really smoothing ;)
     
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  13. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Hello,

    you are right. Low or high-pass filters change the signal which is not wanted. But I meant overall work with the signal - from power supply over voltage dividers to the amplifiers etc. The device works with low voltage and has a large AD conversion range. Proper work with the signal is necessary here.

    Alex.
     
  14. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'm not denying that you have to process the signal in some way to obtain a meaningful peak measurement, just that the term "smoothing" isn't the correct term for the required processing.

    You definitely need a smoothed and regulated power supply, because unintended voltage fluctuations are going to mess up your results.

    But you don't want a smoothed output from your sensor if you're trying to grab a peak, which is how your initial statement read.
     
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  15. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Hello,

    maybe "adjust" is better word. I did not want to go into detail so I use word "smooth". We are in a forum where electronics is not what people care about.

    Alex.
     
  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'd put "process" above those myself.

    Adjust implies that you are modifying the readings, in a good or bad way.

    Smooth is just incorrect from a technical standpoint.


    And I just checked, I just barely qualify to be included in the group named "people", I'm on this forum and I care about technical specifics because it hints to me whether the other person might know what they're talking about ;)

    If the first post I quoted was your only one, I would assume that English was your first language and that you didn't really know your subject.

    Subsequent posts gave me clues that isn't the case, and it was a language barrier as opposed to a knowledge one. I'm happy now to assume that's the case here.
     
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  17. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Yes, English is not my first language. I am glad we understand each other.
     
  18. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Hello all!

    New, better quality videos with more information:





    If you have a question, just ask.

    Alex.
     
  19. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    lol. I just got home from a long day with brain mush. A bunch of science blah blah blah. Totally skipped over a lot context.

    So here is my 7pm cave man feedback.

    1. There's not a lot of give in the target, which means a person won't be able to hit that target with any serious power without risking a broken hand or wrist.

    2. Pad is only good for linear punches. I come from a circular fighting system soooo, it's not going to get a lot of mileage from people who like to throw non-linear punches.

    3. Wing Chun guys would like it because they almost worship the linear concept.

    Other than that Keep following your dream, nothing is perfect the first time around.
     
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  20. raw-power.eu

    raw-power.eu Yellow Belt

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    Hello,
    thanks for your good points. I will try to answer them:

    1. In the first place - you realized that the target is rock solid mounted on the wall. The striking surface is of the dumping foam to reduce the impact of the shock. Use of protective gloves including bandages to reduce risk of injury is a must - I belive this can be confirmed by every experienced boxer. Even light workout without pretective gears is risk (with any device). Secondly, it depends how you train Your hands. Years ago I trained a lot with a my ~90lb mid-heavy bag. Once I visited a friend who bought almost 2m height, >150lb heavy bag. I came to the bag and hit him as I was accustomed and I almost broke my hand! ... Is it clear? ... My hands were trained but not sufficiently strong-due to the bad habit of training with lighter and less resistance bag. I see this as an advantage for the RAW-POWER Force Sensor. Yes, it is rock solid but your hands will adapt which is wanted! Your hands will never be strong enough if you train with a light-mid heavy bag. Of course it is necessary to train slowly. I know it from my own experience. I am able to hit the target with maximum power and I do not remember when my wrist hurt, or I had some injuries - thanks to training with a rock solid target. ((I would be interested in the opinion of other people here))

    2. It is not very good to see, but the striking surface is a rounded-like part of the heavy bag. It lowers the pressures in the wrist - it is more natural. You can throw direct punches like the jab, cross, hooks, body shots (or use a different part of a body like the elbow, knee, kick (if the space permits)). ((btw, what is a circular fighting system?))

    3. I believe the device can be used by anyone. He/She does not have to be a fan of fighting sports. The device can be used as a fitness tool, for weight loss... with the ability to track progress in the long term.

    Thank you.
    Alex.
     

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