Mr. Trejo and teaching at the IKKA HQ

R

rmcrobertson

Guest
Here's what I know, and what I think anybody can verify--though they don't have to agree with my take on it, obviously.

1. The IKKA has been in decline for some time, in terms of membership, influence, etc.

2. The last two tournaments I went to in Long Beach (1999 & 2000) were dreadful. No attendance, lackluster performances, etc. And a lot of praying over the audience at the last one.

3. There's been a lot of--how shall I describe it--schnockering around on the various forums, that has had to do with politics and salesmanship. Some of it has been open and aboveboard; some has not.

4. There appears to have been something going on involving Mr. Trejo's two tournaments, Dian Tanaka, Mrs. Parker, and the IKKA. It does not seem to have been pretty.

5. It has long been difficult to get copies of the "Infinite Insights," books.

6. American kenpo has a long history of being a bit grabby with the bucks, though I don't know enough to comment on whether or not there's more of this in kenpo than in other martial arts.

7. The means by which the IKKA is being rebuilt, from what's been reported on the forums, look sketchy to me. Of course, perhaps they have to.

8. The couple of folks who have been asking questions--Billy Lear and Kirk come to mind--are getting some fairly patronizing responses.

9. I don't care at all for the calls for silence, when forums are there so that everyone (including me, to be sure) can freely express their ignorance and ask questions.

10. Some of the dialogue suggests power and money organized around the same old father-and-son Oedipal model that is half the problem with Mr. Parker's legacy in the first place. For example, translating questions about money into rhetorical questions about our own instructors and hypothetical disrespect for them.

11. There is a general trend towards centralization in the martial arts, and towards turning their study into a new source of corporate revenue enhancement, that I don't care for at all. In part, this is because American martial arts have retained very little of the historical, cultural, and social structures that kept some kind of checks on crappy behavior in old world arts. (Though those old world arts also often excluded women and other undesirables on the grounds of those same protecting structures.) To be sure, holding back the tide of capitalism is a losing battle, and this trend is going to get a hell of a lot worse before it gets better.
12. I personally am damn glad that I've learned enough that I can keep learning on my own if I have to, for the rest of my life.

13. Since H.L Mencken and Spiro Agnew at least, we nattering nabobs of negativism have been getting accused of being--well--aware of reality and critical about it. Good for us.

14. I would be thrilled to see Mr. Trejo do well with the revamped organization. Great guy, great martial artist.

Oh well.
Robert
 

Michael Billings

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
3,962
Reaction score
31
Location
Austin, Texas USA-Terra
Speaking as an instructor, I think I would have a hard time charging my students $10 more per month. It is not about whether I am worth it or not, it is about putting a strain on financial relationships in an already strained economy. It also depends on what they have to offer my students for the money, not just what they offer me. That was the whole crux of my changing Associations. My students out here in KenpoWeed land, as Doug called Texas, just could not benefit from my previous Association. They paid dues, got patches, and that was it for them. If we lived elsewhere, closer to where my previous Association headquartered, there would have been a much stronger Kenpo community to participate in. I would not take a raise in prices lightly Doug.

Think about it from the perspective of you being a teacher. And unless I am wrong Doug, and Sifu has changed greatly, he always entertained and answered my questions. If he could not talk about an issue due to confidentiality issues, or it was just not appropriate for him to share, he would say so. I always appreciated this honesty. Your not questioning may be just that ... your not wanting to ask him the questions. Think about it. I did not want anyone to get the impression that your instructor stifled you. I am sure that is not what you meant ... is it?


Oss,
-Michael
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Michael Billings
My students out here in KenpoWeed land, as Doug called Texas...I did not want anyone to get the impression that your instructor stifled you. I am sure that is not what you meant ... is it?

A) I don't think I said Texas was KenpoWeed land, you are not trying to get me into any trouble I hope. :eek:

B) I personally have more access to Mr. Duffy than maybe anyone. I ask him stuff all the time. We meet for maybe an hour a week about material, business, etc. He addresses every question I put to him. He is more like my big brother than my teacher and I have gotten into trouble over this once or twice. I didn't say anything about him stifling me. He encourages everyone to go to every seminar they can and see what is out there.

Oddly, other Kenpo instructors have jumped on me here on Martial Talk and tried to govern my behaviour. I find that rather disturbing, but I'm not making any reference to you, sir. You have been very nice to me in person and on the web since I've met you.

So, no I did not mean that Mr. Duffy was stifling. I'm not sure how you got that.

Please don't get me in trouble by misquoting me here or mischaracterizing my statements. Mr. Duffy has already asked me a few times about "what I've been up to" based on people misquoting to him what I have said. I know you don't want to get me into any trouble. Please post a reply if I have been vague about any of this. I don't want to a rumor to get started. I will try to make things as clear as I can right here before anything gets out of hand.

I understand that you probaby posed that question to me to give me a chance to clear it up and I appreciate it, sir. You are right. That is not what I meant.

Thank you.
:asian:
 
K

Kirk

Guest
Originally posted by cdhall

So, no I did not mean that Mr. Duffy was stifling. I'm not sure how you got that.

Originally posted by cdhall

But we apparently come from a different perspective. I am not accustomed to questioning my instructor. You either follow him/her or you leave. I would not be caught dead on here questioning Mr. Duffy's motives or decisions and wondering out loud whether I thought I could do better.


Both of you are my friends, so I'm not trying to fan anything ...
just wanted to say, it did come across to me that questioning him
could be "out of line" depending on the circumstance.
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Kirk
Both of you are my friends, so I'm not trying to fan anything ...
just wanted to say, it did come across to me that questioning him
could be "out of line" depending on the circumstance.

I think I meant "questioning him indirectly via the internet." I would question in person if I wanted to. But I would not go do it on the Internet "instead" of asking him directly.

I called Mr. Billings and now I see your post, Kirk. I see what you were saying.

I also meant that if I did not like what he was doing, I would leave if I was not comfortable. I would not stay and go vent via the internet.

I hope all that makes sense. Let me know if it doesn't. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
:asian:
 
R

roryneil

Guest
Where are all these "facts" obtained from? Not saying its not true, just wondering where the info comes from.
 

Michael Billings

Senior Master
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
3,962
Reaction score
31
Location
Austin, Texas USA-Terra
Billy is one of Frank Trejo's long time students. I have heard some of the same info from my teachers, at seminars and camps. They are directly involved in that the IKKA is soliciting them. A lot of the same info was shared with me as Billy or Doug are now making public.

-Michael
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Michael Billings
A lot of the same info was shared with me as Billy or Doug are now making public.

-Michael

Ack! :erg:

I think I have only made public info that came to me from the IKKA and I have quoted them as the source. I can see I am going to get in trouble for "gossiping." My retirement from MT may be imminent. :(

Again, let me know if I said something that seemed otherwise. I don't think I have made any new info public.

I was wondering the same thing as Rory. I told that to Billy yesterday as well. So I have been operating from the premise that it is not a "fact" unless it comes from a verifiable source. I would perhaps have posted the same thing that Rory posted if this topic kept going or came up again.

I try to be careful not to misquote anyone and to also identify my sources, so excuse me if I'm being paranoid, but I don't want to "polute the water" as it were. Making a few waves of course is a different matter. Perhaps. :confused:
 
B

Billy Lear

Guest
Originally posted by cdhall
Ack! :erg:

I think I have only made public info that came to me from the IKKA and I have quoted them as the source. I can see I am going to get in trouble for "gossiping." My retirement from MT may be imminent. :(

Doug,

You're being too sensitive about this crap. Relax brother. It's not that important. You're giving these things too much real-estate in your head.

:rolleyes:
 

cdhall

Master Black Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
1,115
Reaction score
6
Location
Texas
Originally posted by Billy Lear
Doug,

You're being too sensitive about this crap. Relax brother. It's not that important. You're giving these things too much real-estate in your head.

:rolleyes:

Dead on. I think you got it.

I should not expect "journalistic integrity" on a Message Board.

Especially when they don't even expect it at the New York Times!
:rofl:
 

Latest Discussions

Top