Mechanics and combat applications of Poon Sao

[Bino TWT]

It's not just a roll...

 

[KPM]

But who strikes like that???

 

[Martial D]

It's not just a roll...

Chun vs Chun sure.

 

[lansao]

It's not just a roll...

The one thing I agree with here is keeping a tight centerline. I notice a lot of wide gaps in rolling in switching videos that I’ve seen.

Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao. It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.

Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.

 

[wckf92]

I notice a lot of wide gaps in rolling in switching videos that I’ve seen.

You may have been viewing other branches of WC. For example, I think the Vietnamese rolling platform / chi sau is quite wide and circular and may appear to have "wide gaps" (as you say) compared to say a Yip Man platform...

Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao.

...maybe to you and how you were taught in your lineage(?)...

It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.

But for other lineages, this DRILL is to develop completely different things. I.E. our WSL friends have a different take on it. The Duncan guys use it to develop covering ideas. Some use it to develop the punch.

Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.

I've no clue what a naruto is...but the drill is abstract in nature. Kind of like saying..."a boxer doesn't punch like he trains a speed bag"; but he is training an attribute that applies to his ring bouts.

 

[lansao]

You may have been viewing other branches of WC. For example, I think the Vietnamese rolling platform / chi sau is quite wide and circular and may appear to have "wide gaps" (as you say) compared to say a Yip Man platform...



...maybe to you and how you were taught in your lineage(?)...



But for other lineages, this DRILL is to develop completely different things. I.E. our WSL friends have a different take on it. The Duncan guys use it to develop covering ideas. Some use it to develop the punch.



I've no clue what a naruto is...but the drill is abstract in nature. Kind of like saying..."a boxer doesn't punch like he trains a speed bag"; but he is training an attribute that applies to his ring bouts.

Naruto is a comic book about villages of ninjas.

I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.

That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.

Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.

 

[wckf92]

I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.

That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.

Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.

Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not. As you said above...context matters. And how different WC/VT/WT practitioners 'define' things in their own system. Another example for you: WSL guys basically laugh at contact sensitivity training and instead focus on developing their punch via the elbow etc etc...my point is...they (the OP's lineage) and the WSL guys all trace back to Yip Man.
Some prefer to yield, others think that is a gross misinterpretation of WC's basic ideas and fighting strategy. Go figure. It's like different flavors of the same ice cream

 

[lansao]

Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not. As you said above...context matters. And how different WC/VT/WT practitioners 'define' things in their own system. Another example for you: WSL guys basically laugh at contact sensitivity training and instead focus on developing their punch via the elbow etc etc...my point is...they (the OP's lineage) and the WSL guys all trace back to Yip Man.
Some prefer to yield, others think that is a gross misinterpretation of WC's basic ideas and fighting strategy. Go figure. It's like different flavors of the same ice cream

Would you defend a punch like this guy?

 

[lansao]

Missing out on something special? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Strongly asserting, regardless of what art you study, knowing how to react to incoming pressure in a fight by training contact sensitivity is hugely beneficial to your ability to defend yourself.

Your opponent(s) won’t always be in your weight class and you’ll need to know how to interpret movement through touch to avoid fighting force with force.

 

[Martial D]

Would you defend a punch like this guy?

I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would, if I was doing a chi sau 'spar' with another WC guy. Otherwise, no because I like my teeth.

 

[lansao]

I know this wasn't directed to me, but I would, if I was doing a chi sau 'spar' with another WC guy. Otherwise, no because I like my teeth.

I like my teeth too. Sorry if I’m being aggro here but this video rubbed me really wrong for some reason.

Is “chi sao sparring” something people do? Versus sparring sparring? With people who practice different things?

 

[Martial D]

I like my teeth too. Sorry if I’m being aggro here but this video rubbed me really wrong for some reason.

Is “chi sao sparring” something people do? Versus sparring sparring? With people who practice different things?

Sure, we used to do a lot of chi sau sparring. It's only really sparring within the rules of the game though, I don't think I would bust out a bong sau to back fist in an actual fight lol.

For us it was simply an alive and fun way to build sensitivity.

 

[lansao]

Sure, we used to do a lot of chi sau sparring. It's only really sparring within the rules of the game though, I don't think I would bust out a bong sau to back fist in an actual fight lol.

For us it was simply an alive and fun way to build sensitivity.

Cool, I’m picking up what you’re putting down. We would call that (or something like it) random chi sao. Mixing it up from more structured sets (don, 8-step, core sets).

Separately we would spar spar with protective gear. Micro-spar to zoom in on specific battle drills at fight range/intensity and random sparring to develop confidence. We’re always encouraged to get out there and practice with other arts.

 

[Bino TWT]

Wow, I've been away for a while... soooooo much to respond to lol. I'll try to work through all of these comments...

Remember guys, I said this is the mechanics of MY Poon Sao, not "You must fight exactly like this". This is the mechanics of how and why, the ideology and theory behind it.

But who strikes like that???

Strikes like what? Cutting angles on a punch from the outside? You should be able to punch anywhere from anywhere...

Chun vs Chun sure.

It's Chi Sao. Duh.

Otherwise this video demonstrates a misunderstanding of the purpose of chi sao. It’s to develop contact sensitivity and reflex response. Not every piece of it has to have direct fight application.

Also, no one punches like that unless they’re at a Naruto convention. Even if they did, a basic punch straight to the mouth of the opponent would solve for it.

This video is highlighting ONE aspect of Chi Sao: Poon Sao. Something that is often neglected and improperly executed. Yes, Everything should have an application of sorts, or it's pretty useless. FYI, a cutting punch from the outside would stop a straight punch to the teeth, if that is the tool to utilize at that particular moment...

That said, Naruto doesn't use a vertical punch, he does Karate.

I’ll admit I’m not seeing the rest of the context here and I’m coming from my own perspective.

That said, I’m going to stand by my comments. The tips in this video don’t pass my sniff test and people watching it should be skeptical.

Also, if you’re not practicing contact sensitivity and learning how to yield to advantageous positions, you’re missing out on something special.

How does this not pass your "sniff test"? I was pretty clear in the explanation. I'm definitely open to hearing your interpretation on Poon Sao. We are practicing sensitivity and yielding, that's where the roll comes from. Did you actually listen to the video? How do you do Poon Sao?

Would you defend a punch like this guy?

POOOONNNNN SSAAAAAAOOOOO!!! The title of this video isn't "How to defend a punch". This is NOT a sparring video. Geez, lighten up dude. Lansao, I would love to check out some of your Chi Sao videos.

 

[Bino TWT]

Laosao, our Texas Wing Tsun beach retreat is next month, you're more than welcome to come bro. We can train and exchange ideas and have a good time. I'll show you my way, you can show me yours, and we can both learn something. It's a win-win.

 

[lansao]

Wow, I've been away for a while... soooooo much to respond to lol. I'll try to work through all of these comments...

Remember guys, I said this is the mechanics of MY Poon Sao, not "You must fight exactly like this". This is the mechanics of how and why, the ideology and theory behind it.


Strikes like what? Cutting angles on a punch from the outside? You should be able to punch anywhere from anywhere...


It's Chi Sao. Duh.



This video is highlighting ONE aspect of Chi Sao: Poon Sao. Something that is often neglected and improperly executed. Yes, Everything should have an application of sorts, or it's pretty useless. FYI, a cutting punch from the outside would stop a straight punch to the teeth, if that is the tool to utilize at that particular moment...

That said, Naruto doesn't use a vertical punch, he does Karate.



How does this not pass your "sniff test"? I was pretty clear in the explanation. I'm definitely open to hearing your interpretation on Poon Sao. We are practicing sensitivity and yielding, that's where the roll comes from. Did you actually listen to the video? How do you do Poon Sao?


POOOONNNNN SSAAAAAAOOOOO!!! The title of this video isn't "How to defend a punch". This is NOT a sparring video. Geez, lighten up dude. Lansao, I would love to check out some of your Chi Sao videos.

Hey, sorry about my comments man. I was being unusually and unnecessarily snarky/di**ish.

 

[lansao]

Laosao, our Texas Wing Tsun beach retreat is next month, you're more than welcome to come bro. We can train and exchange ideas and have a good time. I'll show you my way, you can show me yours, and we can both learn something. It's a win-win.

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Where at? Galveston?

 

[Martial D]

It's Chi Sao. Duh.

Sure. The thing is the first thing you do in that video is talk about what is useful in a "fight", not what is useful for chi sau.

Hence my comment.

 

[Bino TWT]

Sure. The thing is the first thing you do in that video is talk about what is useful in a "fight", not what is useful for chi sau.

Hence my comment.

Punch, Bong, Taan, Fook, yielding and redirecting energy, striking while controlling, Simultanious attack & defense, all applicable in a fight.

 

[Bino TWT]

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Where at? Galveston?

Yessir, August 11th. I'll inbox you the details if you're interested. I have to check with the admins if it's ok before I make a public post about it. All are welcome, hope you can make it.