Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

[jobo]

No, not really. Improving language skills serves a practical purpose. Improving complex kata only makes you good at doing complex kata.

no its runs, complex kata is improving body language skills

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I didn't say highly respected. I said highly regarded.

I stand corrected. "Highly regarded," then.

This sounds no different than what a religious person might say when reason confronts their traditions. Sorry, but I believe that the woo-woo can be removed from martial arts training. We're not i

Ah, woo-woo. I see. What you make clear by your use of terms is that you have no interest in any martial arts training beyond the surface level. You would equate anything that doesn't relate directly to punching and kicking to be "woo-woo." Well, that is your opinion, as before. One that is shared by some, but certainly not all martial artists feel that way.

You seem to be under the impression that I'm some meathead who cares only about brutality. You speak of "developing mind and body." This can be done regardless of MA training. Too many East Asian martial arts have become cultish in this way.

You have quite a few opinions, but very little to offer in the way of argument, other than stating 'how you feel'.

Have a nice day and goodbye.

 

[jobo]

As an atheist and a rationalist, I get irritated when innocent people get duped by some of the traditional nonsense. I see no reason to put a martial art on a pedestal.

Also, you speak of using TMA for personal development. Ok. But remember the footage of the Chinese wushu master who accepted the challenge of the Chinese MMA fighter and lost in a few seconds? All his many years of "character improvement" flew out the window the moment he even accepted such a challenge.

you seem to be,trying to argue a point no one is,contesting.

so again, points i think we,agree on?

tma is a,goof way to develop your body and mind

it is not a particularly good way to learn fighting skill, there are,certainly more,efficient ways to do it in a,shorter. Time,frame

most of the people,doing tma, accept that the,above are true and,choose to do it,anyways,as they a) enjoy it and b) its good for you them

 

[Headhunter]

My god...we're certainly attracting a lot of them lately

 

[Danny T]

To be a fighter. Doesn't take a long time, Just fight.
To be a good fighter takes more time.
To be a highly regarded to some can take a very short time. Just beat someone else who is highly regarded.
To be a good martial artist meaning to learning the art take a lot longer because there is a lot more to learn.
To be an excellent martial artist takes even longer.

Most high level pros in any combat sport have 10 years or more of training under their belt.

Most high level Muay Thai fighters in Thailand start training under the age of 10 many at 5 or 6 and have 200-300 fights by the time they retire in their late teens or early 20's. That gives them 10-12 years before getting into their prime fighting worth for the camps. There are a few that stay for longer but very few.

 

[MA_Student]

No, not really. Improving language skills serves a practical purpose. Improving complex kata only makes you good at doing complex kata.

Yeahhhh and what if someone wants to be good at kata? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don't. Maybe get off your high horse and realise people have different interests to you...

 

[MA_Student]

.
You have quite a few opinions, but very little to offer in the way of argument, other than stating 'how you feel'..

We seem to be getting that a lot lately

 

[Anarax]

As an atheist and a rationalist, I get irritated when innocent people get duped by some of the traditional nonsense. I see no reason to put a martial art on a pedestal.

Also, you speak of using TMA for personal development. Ok. But remember the footage of the Chinese wushu master who accepted the challenge of the Chinese MMA fighter and lost in a few seconds? All his many years of "character improvement" flew out the window the moment he even accepted such a challenge.

What does being an Athesist have to do with this? That's so irrelevant to the conversation, yet you feel obligated to inform us of this. You're objectivity is above reproach because you're an atheist? Martial arts is not only about fighting, but about cultivating the human spirit. It's supposed to teach you honor and respect. Did you see the the IDF soldier getting stabbed? That must mean because Krav maga didn't work in that one scenario, the entire system is useless? Of course not, that would be ignorant to think so.

 

[JR 137]

You generally won't find a pro fighter with under 10 years of experience. So not really

And people do train a lot of stuff that don't really help them fight sometimes.

I know, you said "generally," but I couldn't not post this one...

 

[Hyoho]

This whole "years to master" philosphy is pretty unique to East Asian martial arts--and even then there are exceptions, like muay thai, where a guy can become an highly regarded in a relatively short amount of time.

When I see a kickboxer or a krav maga guy who's spent a measely year in training hold his own against a karateka who's spent two decades on kata and kibadachi stance or whatever, I feel bad for the karateka. I get it that some people want the "authentic" tradition (or what they think is authentic tradition), but it seems like a waste of time to me.

Comments?

PS

I have some years of experience in Shotokan, so I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance. I feel that life is so much more than "mastering fighting" or becoming the mythical "master martial artist."

Your concept of what we do is very Western. Of consdering what we do as defence and attack especially in 2017. Asians practice for the art and cultural values. They do it beacuse they like it, not because they are good at it. More of a community activity for its sportlike educational values. I think you are confusing natural ability with mastery. Some with natural abilty will advance quickly but all in all it's age and maturity that brings fruit. The ability to perform an action with excellent timing and minimum lack of effort. The Asian concept on the arts is to practice something you know you never master.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yeahhhh and what if someone wants to be good at kata? Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don't. Maybe get off your high horse and realise people have different interests to you...

Just so. I can make tea. Most people can.

However, some spend their lives studying the 'do' of tea making.

But what if my instant tea tastes better to a judge than theirs? Have they wasted their lives, when they could have simply gone to the market?

No.

Because it is less about tea and more about the way.

I study karate. I can fight.

Not as well as some, I have little doubt.

Have I wasted my time?

No, because my study is less about fighting than some might think.

I'm not perfecting my ability to fight, other than in an incidental way. I'm perfecting myself, to the extent that I can.

Those who make tea, arrange flowers, draw characters, arrange sand gardens, same.

 

[Flying Crane]

No, not really. Improving language skills serves a practical purpose. Improving complex kata only makes you good at doing complex kata.

Ah. It sounds to me like you have received poor instruction in kata.

I don't hold that against you, it's not your fault. It is the fault of your instructor. There is a lot of that about, actually, so your situation is not remarkable.

This may require a splinter thread, but if you are actually honestly interested in learning what kata really is, and how to approach kata as a viable training tool, there are some very knowledgeable folks here who can have that discussion.

It's been done a number of times already.

However, if you are not honestly interested in learning something, and intend to clutch desperately at your uneducated beliefs, then don't bother.

 

[CDR_Glock]

There are so many styles of martial arts. There are many styles of hand to hand combat. Many things involve conditioning of the mind, spirit as well as the body.

Unfortunately, the modern day takes a lot of that and throws it out the window. Multiple attacks are done by gangs and mobs of people. The best thing to do is have the proper state of mind and avoid conflict or keep it from escalating.

Martial arts helps in one on one in a ring.

However outside of a competition without judges and rules, there has to be a system that is simple to execute. When someone discovers that I'm game. Krav Maga and Jeet Kune Do seem like the most progressive styles that I have seen.

As for now, I have a method but it doesn't deal with an empty hand. Doubt I'll ever give that up over martial arts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[CDR_Glock]

There are so many styles of martial arts. There are many styles of hand to hand combat. Many things involve conditioning of the mind, spirit as well as the body.

Unfortunately, the modern day takes a lot of that and throws it out the window. Multiple attacks are done by gangs and mobs of people. The best thing to do is have the proper state of mind and avoid conflict or keep it from escalating.

Martial arts helps in one on one in a ring.

However outside of a competition without judges and rules, there has to be a system that is simple to execute. When someone discovers that I'm game. Krav Maga and Jeet Kune Do seem like the most progressive styles that I have seen.

As for now, I have a method but it doesn't deal with an empty hand. Doubt I'll ever give that up over martial arts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[MA_Student]

It's all about what people want. Frankly I don't know If I can fight...if I got in a street fight I don't know how I'd do. Yeah I've been training for a long time in different styles but I don't if I could beat someone in a real street fight and frankly I don't care if it ever happens I'll do what I can to defend myself but it's not something I'm worried about. I don't do martial arts because I want to beat someone or because I hate someone and want to take them out. I do it for fun. I enjoy what I do it's something to do in the evenings and learn some stuff and stay in shape. That's literally all it's about to me. I don't care about fighting I turn up I work hard I practice outside the class I do all that just for myself not so I can win a fight or take out 3 guys in a bar fight it's just not about that for me. I'll spend years learning because I want to spend years learning.

 

[MA_Student]

It's all about what people want. Frankly I don't know If I can fight...if I got in a street fight I don't know how I'd do. Yeah I've been training for a long time in different styles but I don't if I could beat someone in a real street fight and frankly I don't care if it ever happens I'll do what I can to defend myself but it's not something I'm worried about. I don't do martial arts because I want to beat someone or because I hate someone and want to take them out. I do it for fun. I enjoy what I do it's something to do in the evenings and learn some stuff and stay in shape. That's literally all it's about to me. I don't care about fighting I turn up I work hard I practice outside the class I do all that just for myself not so I can win a fight or take out 3 guys in a bar fight it's just not about that for me. I'll spend years learning because I want to spend years learning.

 

[marques]

Some people enjoy the way. When they (or we) know everything (or just stop progressing for some reason) it is no longer interesting or motivating to go somewhere and train.

Some people enjoy the quick final result. And then, what to do? Moving away loosing the skills learned or keep training only for maintenance?

What you get quickly is not art. It is using the natural strength of a young body and memorising a series of movements.

In some styles, the progress is fast at the beginning but does not go far. In other styles, the progress is slow but never ends. Some styles aim one thing, some styles aim another.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's all about what people want. Frankly I don't know If I can fight...if I got in a street fight I don't know how I'd do. Yeah I've been training for a long time in different styles but I don't if I could beat someone in a real street fight and frankly I don't care if it ever happens I'll do what I can to defend myself but it's not something I'm worried about. I don't do martial arts because I want to beat someone or because I hate someone and want to take them out. I do it for fun. I enjoy what I do it's something to do in the evenings and learn some stuff and stay in shape. That's literally all it's about to me. I don't care about fighting I turn up I work hard I practice outside the class I do all that just for myself not so I can win a fight or take out 3 guys in a bar fight it's just not about that for me. I'll spend years learning because I want to spend years learning.

Yeah.

Honestly, when people spend all their time thinking about fighting and how they need to prepare themselves for the possibility of being attacked, my paranoia sniffer starts to ping.

Sure, the need for self defense is a genuine possibility, and skills to handle that ought to be part and parcel of martial training.

However, it definitely does not need to be obsessively on your mind all the time, and can certainly take a distant third or fourth or fifth place on the list of reasons why one likes to train.

 

[Martial D]

This whole "years to master" philosphy is pretty unique to East Asian martial arts--and even then there are exceptions, like muay thai, where a guy can become an excellent fighter in a relatively short amount of time.

When I see a kickboxer or a krav maga guy who's spent a measely year in training hold his own against a karateka who's spent two decades on kata and kibadachi stance or whatever, I feel bad for the karateka. I get it that some people want the "authentic" tradition (or what they think is authentic tradition), but it seems like a waste of time to me.

Comments?

PS

I have some years of experience in Shotokan, so I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance. I feel that life is so much more than "mastering fighting" or becoming the mythical "master martial artist."

Let's see. The best boxers have been doing it their whole lives. I've never heard of an elite boxer that has less than a decade of training.

BJJ black belts take literally forever and a day to earn, and are purely performance based.

Etcetera ad infinitum.

Sure. Someone that has been training towards combat or competition for a short time can beat someone that has been training things unrelated to combat or competition for a long time, but that's just pointing out the obvious isn't it?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

What does being an Athesist have to do with this? That's so irrelevant to the conversation, yet you feel obligated to inform us of this. You're objectivity is above reproach because you're an atheist?

An atheist, a vegan and a crossfitter walked into a bar. I know this because they informed everyone in the bar as they walked through the door.