Some martial arts schools don't test students, rather they simply promote the student when the student is ready. The student might put on a demonstration with the purpose of showing off what they've learned and so forth but unless their performance affects the outcome, another words, unless there's the possibility of failing and not being promoted as well as the possibility of passing and being promoted than its not a test. Its a demonstration, plain and simple. Now, Im not saying such methods are wrong or bad but there are some schools that require a student to pass a test in order to be promoted. Their performance during the test determines whether they get promoted or not. Now, some might ask what's the point of having a test that the instructor should know if the student is ready or not to promote without having to test the student. Well, the point of testing the student is that it tests the student's performance under pressure. When you're taking a test and you know you're taking a test and the outcome depends on how well you do there is a certain amount of psychological pressure that you have to deal with. So that's why some schools use tests.
The point of testing students
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jobo
Grandmaster
its much the same in school? What's best? An exam that shows a student can preform on the day under pressure, or course work that shows a level of consistent excellence over a longer period. Which of those is the fairest test and which gives the most accurate assessment of ability?.
i think continuous assessment is fairest and best, but personally I'm lazy but good at performing under pressure, so i do best at exams, i just use to copy other peoples course work, but you can't cheat at ma assessments unless you have,a twin
I like how my son's school and lineage handles it.
You need 3 black belts from the lineage to nominate you for testing.
All black belts from the lineage are allowed to sit on the panel and vote. Each black belt gets as many votes as they are dan (1st dan has one vote, 5th dan has 5 votes and so on).
You need 90% of the votes to be awarded black belt.
Before voting, black belts have opportunity in private to address the panel with concerns they have with the candidate.
It serves as some quality control, but also creates a feeling of accomplishment and camaraderie to be judged and accepted by ones peers.
We do something close to that in our UC program.
You need 3 black belts from the lineage to nominate you for testing.
All black belts from the lineage are allowed to sit on the panel and vote. Each black belt gets as many votes as they are dan (1st dan has one vote, 5th dan has 5 votes and so on).
You need 90% of the votes to be awarded black belt.
Before voting, black belts have opportunity in private to address the panel with concerns they have with the candidate.
It serves as some quality control, but also creates a feeling of accomplishment and camaraderie to be judged and accepted by ones peers.
We do something close to that in our UC program.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I like the way my school does it: no tests, no promotions, no belts.
It works for us.
One's mileage may vary.
It works for us.
One's mileage may vary.
jobo
Grandmaster
that's interesting, we had a thread where i said belts were at best a,distraction and every one else said they were invaluable, i suspect that was because they all had black bests or above and didn't like to,admit they had wasted dollars and years on something with no intrinsic value.
why does your,school not bother with them ?
jobo
Grandmaster
that's interesting, we had a thread where i said belts were at best a,distraction and every one else said they were invaluable, i suspect that was because they all had black bests or above and didn't like to,admit they had wasted dollars and years on something with no intrinsic value.
why does your,school not bother with them ?
Danny T
Senior Master
What does, "when the student is ready" mean?
Every time I work with a student outside of teaching or coaching it is a test. In the same class I can be teaching, coaching, or testing and other than beginners they know when they are being taught or coached and when they are being tested.
Balrog
Master of Arts
Our students are evaluated throughout the testing cycle. If they aren't ready, they don't get permission to test. If they do get permission and have a bad hair day at the testing, they don't promote.
Simple as that.
Simple as that.
I don't recall anyone calling them invaluable. Several pointed out the value they found in both belts and testing/promotion. Most of us are not terribly wrapped up in the concept, and don't really think about our belts (black or otherwise) much.
I don't recall anyone calling them invaluable. Several pointed out the value they found in both belts and testing/promotion. Most of us are not terribly wrapped up in the concept, and don't really think about our belts (black or otherwise) much.
I think a combination is a good fit, like exists in many grade schools. It could be done without one or the other. My students don't get much stress in their belt testing early on. I haven't decided what the testing will be precisely as they near black belt - that likely depends how I think the curriculum is doing at testing them along the way, and what I want to test for, besides technical proficiency.
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- #11
If the instructor sees that the student is ready.
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- #12
So I take it your school doesn't use a ranking system, not all schools and not all styles do.
- Thread Starter
- #13
So your school doesn't have a ranking system I assume. Not all schools and not all styles do.
Danny T
Senior Master
So the student has already shown the instructor proficiency in the material to be tested right? So really the test is not a measure of the student's knowledge and skill but a formality for he/she has already shown the instructor the proficiency to be ready to test.
I've seen this used three ways:
- As you describe - the test is a formality.
- As I use it - the test is a chance to look for anything I missed.
- As a chance to see them perform under stress and/or to create some struggle, one more thing for them to achieve (the latter not really being a martial purpose, but a development purpose).
JR 137
Grandmaster
Testing can be used for other things too...
1. Quality control.
Look at this class and teaching schedule: http://www.seido.com/fileuploads/HonbuFullSchedule.pdf
With several hundred students and classes running from 7:30 am-9 pm, students are going to get overlooked if there's not a solid plan in place. Some students might not ever see the CI if their personal schedule conflicts with the school's schedule. If I was a student there taking classes under different instructors, there could be too much variation in when the difference instructors thought I was ready.
Testing students from different schools also serves as quality control. If teachers consistently bring students who don't perform as well and/or fail, that can be addressed. If students from a particular school are all performing specific standardized techniques differently from the rest of the schools, that can also be addressed easily. With a central figure testing students from affiliated schools, the CI is held accountable for his/her students. These issues continually arise and get addressed.
2. The test is part of the learning process itself.
Students learn to pass AND fail gracefully. Especially the kids. They learn they have have to put in the work, and they have to perform when it matters most. They still have to perform every day in training, otherwise they won't test; but they also have to perform well when the pressure's really on. They're not going to get a participation award in the form of a promotion. They have to earn it. If and when they fail, they're taught they need to work harder and/or smarter if they want to be successful. If the student didn't accomplish their goal, they've got to change their approach. That's a life lesson that can't be simulated the same way and to the same extent without the testing process.
There's been students over the years who've been forced out of their comfort zones and are better for it. I remember a female student in my previous organization who refused to spar with males. She was told from the beginning she'd have to during her training and especially during her black belt test where she'd spar with men she didn't know. She wasn't from my dojo and none of us knew what her issues were, but it seemed obvious to me that there was some form of abuse from male(s) in her past. She was a wreck during the required sparring, but she got through it admirably. She later on told me and a few others that it really helped her personally.
1. Quality control.
Look at this class and teaching schedule: http://www.seido.com/fileuploads/HonbuFullSchedule.pdf
With several hundred students and classes running from 7:30 am-9 pm, students are going to get overlooked if there's not a solid plan in place. Some students might not ever see the CI if their personal schedule conflicts with the school's schedule. If I was a student there taking classes under different instructors, there could be too much variation in when the difference instructors thought I was ready.
Testing students from different schools also serves as quality control. If teachers consistently bring students who don't perform as well and/or fail, that can be addressed. If students from a particular school are all performing specific standardized techniques differently from the rest of the schools, that can also be addressed easily. With a central figure testing students from affiliated schools, the CI is held accountable for his/her students. These issues continually arise and get addressed.
2. The test is part of the learning process itself.
Students learn to pass AND fail gracefully. Especially the kids. They learn they have have to put in the work, and they have to perform when it matters most. They still have to perform every day in training, otherwise they won't test; but they also have to perform well when the pressure's really on. They're not going to get a participation award in the form of a promotion. They have to earn it. If and when they fail, they're taught they need to work harder and/or smarter if they want to be successful. If the student didn't accomplish their goal, they've got to change their approach. That's a life lesson that can't be simulated the same way and to the same extent without the testing process.
There's been students over the years who've been forced out of their comfort zones and are better for it. I remember a female student in my previous organization who refused to spar with males. She was told from the beginning she'd have to during her training and especially during her black belt test where she'd spar with men she didn't know. She wasn't from my dojo and none of us knew what her issues were, but it seemed obvious to me that there was some form of abuse from male(s) in her past. She was a wreck during the required sparring, but she got through it admirably. She later on told me and a few others that it really helped her personally.
jobo
Grandmaster
the grade is meaningless outside the context of the organisation that awards it. As long as they consistently apply the same method so as one green belt means the same as any other green belt then all is good.
putting someone through a test doesn't mean they have superior skills to one awarded on I going observation, in fact the opposite may be true,
pressure inflicted in a test situation is not the same as presure arising from say a confrontation, measuring the ability to perform under one, doesn't mean they can perform under the other
A test may be a true test, not just a demonstration. It may be a written exam or assessment (I did), it may be something exceptional for evaluation purposes (as heavy sparring), or something quite usual, but in front of a jury rather than only one instructor.
I also graded in another school in order to jump a few levels and start sparring and going to more advanced classes. Again, it was needed because only one or two instructors there could grade and these ones didn't even know me before the evaluation. It also makes grading easier and fairer. Dozens of students do the same at the same time. The ones whom success pass. Simple.
Some schools don't grade at all (as Systema), which makes more difficult, at first, knowing where are the ones we should pay attention.
All different, for different public. All fine.
I also graded in another school in order to jump a few levels and start sparring and going to more advanced classes. Again, it was needed because only one or two instructors there could grade and these ones didn't even know me before the evaluation. It also makes grading easier and fairer. Dozens of students do the same at the same time. The ones whom success pass. Simple.
Some schools don't grade at all (as Systema), which makes more difficult, at first, knowing where are the ones we should pay attention.
All different, for different public. All fine.
This is key, IMO. Even the hardest tests I've been through didn't generate the fight-or-flight response as experienced when physical violence is imminent. I got value from the struggle of the test, but it wasn't (IMO) a way to get used to that kind of stress.
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FighterTwister
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Testing provides the student the right to pass or not based on how well they understand the subject matter in theory and practical application.
The specific criteria for each level, defines what is needed to master and demonstrate before moving up in rank.
First you should be aware of your own skills and self-assessing being true to yourself (knowing self or self-awareness is a good test of cahracter) and prove to the teacher that you have successfully accomplished the level and requirement’s met at that level and ready for the next.
In this way it really provides both the student a quality of achievement and rank well deserved and the teacher feedback that their training methods and structure of developing their members as martial artist is successful in teaching and preserving the martial art they teach in form and quality.
I personally think thats the correct approach to take because your are responsible as a teacher and guide and will eventually sign off as to whether they can go on and start their own practice as a qualified and proven martial artist in the style you teach.
The “Practical Assessment” is a demonstration of techniques and skills in a physical act of showing what you have mastered proving you’re ready for the next level.
The “Theoretical Assessment” is either understanding terms and names of each movement and maybe some theory as to what it is that they are doing this could be part of the demonstration as well but tested as two parts in the assessment process if that makes any sense or a written examination of the theory that must be successfully met as requirements of assessment for approval of promotion to next rank.
Some instructors I have trained with do this as formal way of qualifying and testing the ability and knowledge as they move to senior ranks.
The specific criteria for each level, defines what is needed to master and demonstrate before moving up in rank.
First you should be aware of your own skills and self-assessing being true to yourself (knowing self or self-awareness is a good test of cahracter) and prove to the teacher that you have successfully accomplished the level and requirement’s met at that level and ready for the next.
In this way it really provides both the student a quality of achievement and rank well deserved and the teacher feedback that their training methods and structure of developing their members as martial artist is successful in teaching and preserving the martial art they teach in form and quality.
I personally think thats the correct approach to take because your are responsible as a teacher and guide and will eventually sign off as to whether they can go on and start their own practice as a qualified and proven martial artist in the style you teach.
The “Practical Assessment” is a demonstration of techniques and skills in a physical act of showing what you have mastered proving you’re ready for the next level.
The “Theoretical Assessment” is either understanding terms and names of each movement and maybe some theory as to what it is that they are doing this could be part of the demonstration as well but tested as two parts in the assessment process if that makes any sense or a written examination of the theory that must be successfully met as requirements of assessment for approval of promotion to next rank.
Some instructors I have trained with do this as formal way of qualifying and testing the ability and knowledge as they move to senior ranks.
