Martial arts as defense on the streets

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Gweilo, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I have recently read that there are those who believe martial arts are ineffective in a street fight, myself, I do not believe this to be the case, yes it depends on the individual, but every little helps I say, anyhow, found this interesting video on line, and thought I would share it with you, my particular favourite is the Muay Thai cop.


    Martial arts in street fight - Martial arts - Self defense - fitness in Erbil Iraq | Facebook
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Saying "martials arts are ineffective for ___" or "martial arts are great for ___" is a lot like saying "a toolbox of tools will be useful for ____ job" or "don't use any toolbox tools for ____". It really is too general a term to be useful for the discussion, IMO.

    For many people, martial arts includes a wide range of systems and training approaches, which may or may not (depending who you ask) include modern Wushu, BJJ, boxing, Olympic TKD, bare-knuckle fight training, fencing, and tons more. Some of that has some pretty direct application in some defensive scenarios. Some doesn't. Most are somewhere between "all" and "none" being applicable.

    What is trained, how it's trained, and how it's evaluated matters.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    A side point - most of those videos don't appear to be self-defense. They look like consensual fights.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    2,854
    Likes Received:
    867
    Trophy Points:
    213
    It's not that this art or that art or all arts are useless in a street fight.

    It's that fight training and 'martial arts' training don't always have a ton of overlap.

    I don't care WHAT style you do; if your training consists of doing forms or katas in the air and practicing on a compliant partner or no partner, you just aren't learning to fight.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    So if an aggressive bloke approaches me, wanting to fight, engaging him is no longer self defense, it becomes consensual?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That's not at all related to what I said.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,084
    Likes Received:
    863
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    there's an ongoing what is the definition if self defence debate on here, I go with the British law definition, finding yourself in a situation where you have honest belief that the other person means you harm or they are the one who is initiating the violence, even if you make no attempt to leave or calm it down. it then becomes very very difficult to split a consensual fight from an attack
     
  8. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    I do not see how the security guard, doing his job was consensual, the other clips maybe.
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Does British law not include anything about something being consensual, as an exclusion from the self-defense defense? In other words, you can do just as much to someone when you agree to fight them as you could if they jumped you, with identical legal protection?
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I didn't say none of them were self-defense.
     
  11. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Given most TMA generally doesnt cover the skillset needed for self defence i disagree. On a tradtional stance of all what you needing for self defence beaing a martial skill and martial arts meant to teach you that, i disagree. But thats traditional usage.

    they generally dont cover the most important self defence skill: you can run.
    I think Ramsey dewy put it as or at least self defence schools etc as (at least the bad ones) teaching you to meet violence with wimpy violence.

    Have to say my favorite self defence thing is the person who just runs from a knife.

    Edit: fat RIP, i didnt fully read your post clearly. :p Some styles work better than others though for diffrent things.

    I will have to look into which countries have Mutual combat in the U.K. Its obviously not fully banned as we have prize fights. Im pretty sure you cant claim self defence if you agreed to fight someone though, you could if they break the rules of the fight or continue after you withdrew your consent.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    That's what I would expect.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Which is great when it's a good option. I'd guess in most cases running away makes it not worth their while, if you can run with any pace.

    When I was 30, running was likely to fit a lot of scenarios. Today, I'd limit it to those situations where my above statement seems (to my quick judgment) to be applicable. If I think they're actually intent on doing harm, on bad days I wouldn't trust my knees to let me make that turn-and-dash without impairing the other guy first.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,084
    Likes Received:
    863
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    no British law includes injuries caused by concesensual activities as criminal injuries, for which you can be prosecuted, with the exception of some specifics in specific circumstances , boxing has a specific exemption, other ma are a bit open to interpretation, but proberbly coverd , at a club setting, hard sparing in the park between two private individual is very very iffy,therefore any actual fight consensual or not is likely to lead to a prosecution if anything other than superficial injuries are sustained and of course they found out
     
  15. Rat

    Rat 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Body armour is a decent middle as it reduced the risk for getting incapacitating hit if you get ambushed, but you generally should look at avoidance for weapons first especially if you arent armed or armoured, in contrast to people who get those disarms taught to them that gives them a false confidence its good counter advice/reality based advice to have their mind based into what would happen.

    I suppose it also depends on if you live in a stand your ground state as well if you could deploy a pistol in the U.S for it and how its worded.
     
  16. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Okay, by that description, it should be fairly easy to draw the line between consensual fighting and self-defense. Did I mis-read your earlier post - I thought you were saying you followed the British law model of not distinguishing between them?
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    None of that has much relevance to the idea of running. Availability and legality of armor and weapons is another area of discussion, entirely.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2017
    Messages:
    6,084
    Likes Received:
    863
    Trophy Points:
    263
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    No it's anything but easy, which was the point I was making , SD is at any point you believe your at risk, you don't need to wait to be attacked If by his words actions or movements you feel threatened then you can punch him , as most fights included some sort of threats , posturing in the build up, then the differenance between an agreed fight and SD is very difficult to determine ,
     
  19. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    21,923
    Likes Received:
    6,425
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    Legally, there is a distinction in many jurisdictions. If you agree to the conflict, there has to be pretty serious escalation for a self-defense claim to be considered valid. In discussion, the distinction is pretty easy in a non-legal discussion at a high level, but harder in some cases. It comes down to this: If you agreed to fight someone when it would have been reasonably easy to NOT do that (in other words, they don't force the point by attacking against your will), then it's not self-defense.
     
  20. Gweilo

    Gweilo Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2019
    Messages:
    515
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Nope, here it is either self defense, assault, or public disorder.
     

Share This Page

Search tags for this page

diy bokken for self defense