Martial Art vs. Sport (again)

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by puunui, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Usually, when people say a user is attacked for their views, its because they support those peoples views, or those people. Im not saying anything, just that thats usually what it means.
     
  2. ralphmcpherson

    ralphmcpherson Senior Master

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    So very, very true.
     
  3. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

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    If it is going to be that big of a deal, then we'll just leave.
     
  4. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    I would hate to see that....if you and Maste Cole left... We would go back to the old BBS....which was rather boring....stay and keep the discussion going!
     
  5. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    I support in part the views of most people on this BBS. I disagree at times with everyone. I support the right for people to speak out. I hate when people try to sensor peoples opinions. Hell i never agree with twin fist but he is one of my favorite posters.
     
  6. StudentCarl

    StudentCarl 3rd Black Belt

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    Sir,

    The trees with character are those along a windward shore that have had to withstand the biting wind. Those without character stand straight in the midst of a planted forest, all identical, reaching in only one direction for a tiny window of light. They don't know the wind.
     
  7. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Same here. I tend to find most of the conversation constructive. Other conversations can be weird, or amount to little or nothing. And then theres the pointless debating :)
     
  8. Archtkd

    Archtkd 3rd Black Belt

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    You and I go at it quite a bit, but I must ask you: is this Australian humor?
     
  9. ralphmcpherson

    ralphmcpherson Senior Master

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    Probably just Australian humour:) In all seriousness though, I find this quite a peaceful place, I really dont recall people making personal attacks or being disrespectful. I think when people start "investigating" others it goes a bit far, but I cant say Ive ever sunk to that level. Thakfully, anytime they start investigating and dragging up names of clubs or instructors who have nothing to do with this board the thread gets locked pretty quickly. Thats a good thing I think.
     
  10. Gorilla

    Gorilla Master of Arts

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    Somebody negative reped me for some posts I made about Master Cole and Punuui. Thanks I never knew how that worked. I have a real hard time understanding why people do all the reporting. Some people tried to get me kicked off when I started on this BBS and the Mods did a terrific job.

    Agree with them or not let them speak!!! It keeps the BBS lively. I enjoy everyone on this board even those who dont like me. I would never want anyone silenced.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2012
  11. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    Especially given the level of knowledge on this board I'm shocked at how sensitive people can be. Seems they'd rather live in a bubble than open their eyes and really learn. I was very much guilty of this not that long ago.
     
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  12. Cyriacus

    Cyriacus Senior Master

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    Yeah.

    This can be an odd place :)
     
  13. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Plus there is this competition of Taiji masters:D
     
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  14. clfsean

    clfsean Senior Master

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    There is that... :bangahead:
     
  15. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    I used to see Sport TKD and Art TKD as two different things. I think it was mostly because I looked at the popularity of TKD growing the the Olympic movement and seeing a lot of the school capitalizing on that by teaching mostly the sport branch of it. They found that this is what worked best for them in terms of keeping their doors open.

    However, as I learned more about the history and what a lot of the goals of the pioneers were through that research, it became a bit more clear that it should never be a sport vs art....because honestly it is like a less filling vs taste great debate.....it's the same beer...you just enjoy it for different reasons (well if you like Miller...that is a whole different thread).

    The problem is that practitioners need to have balance in their training. Example: If I train ONLY the SD aspects, I miss out on a lot of great physical conditioning that sport training provides, which can help in a SD situation. On the flip side, if I focus on only sport training, then I miss out on how to handle situations that do not happen in the ring, but will happen in the outside world. So you see, some balance in training is the key.
     
  16. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    Okay Jeremy, this has piqued my interest, so let's talk about it from an unemotional, rational, non-art vs. sport perspective and see where it takes us.

    Let's take a look at the conditioning aspect to begin with. I agree that the sport training methodology side of the house can have a fantastic conditioning component. And yes, great conditioning can be of tremendous benefit in a SD situation (or emergency survival situation for that matter as well as life in general). However, if one trains with a SD training methodology, why would you suggest that the conditioning component is inferior? Not putting you on the spot, just looking for discussion on the point you've put forth so take it in that light please.

    Secondly, SD methodology as I've mentioned takes into account multiple things that are important that I've never seen sports training methodology cover in passing, let alone in-depth. NOT a slam on sport methodology, just posting an observation. Additionally, TKD that uses the sport methodology, in my experience concentrates on kicks/strikes in a controlled-environment perspective and does not cover in a meaningful way things such as locks, throws, chokes, cavity pressing, ground defense, escape & evasion, de-esculation etc which are necessary (or at least highly useful) in a SD situation. This limits the responses possible and makes it more one dimensional as far as possible options.

    And again, this isn't putting one above the other, so it should not be taken in that light. I'm wording everything carefully so there is no misunderstanding as to the intent of the post. I'm pointing out differences (and similarities) within the two venues. Others are free to offer their thoughts as well.

    Thank you.
     
  17. leadleg

    leadleg Blue Belt

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    I think the question should be more along the lines of why do some instructors only teach sport when, their MA offers so much more. There is no balance in some schools, even only S/D would be totally off balance. I am KKW so I know what balances my art, I am sure it is the same with any art that has "DO" at the end of the name. The issues are about the school not the art.
     
  18. Kong Soo Do

    Kong Soo Do IKSDA Director

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    Valid questions, let's take a look, using KKW TKD as an example. From a sport methodology it's the bomb. No argument. But is it balanced from the perspective of SD methodology? Let me ask you, does your KKW TKD curriculum consider/cover in-depth the O.O.D.A. loop, escape and evasion, flinch response, gross motor skill sets, adrenaline induced responses, grappling, locks, throws, cavity pressing or ground defense (just to name some of the basic SD methodology considerations)? And again, not a jab at KKW TKD, simply looking at what it does, and does not offer. Does KKW TKD train in a controlled environment using only certain skills against a single opponent who is unarmed using a prescribed, mutually agreed upon rule set? I would suggest that KKW TKD has a focus on sport competitions and not SD. And that is okay if you're goal/focus is on competition. It does not necessarily make you unbalanced as a martial artist unless you are expecting KKW TKD (or any sport art) to be effective for SD also. Similarly, SD only is only unbalance if you expect it to have a sport related component.
     
  19. leadleg

    leadleg Blue Belt

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    The answer would be yes except on grappling and throwing and cavity press.
     
  20. ETinCYQX

    ETinCYQX Master Black Belt

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    KKW Taekwondo doesn't officially include any grappling. My master has added some, including basic throwing, wrist locks, armbars, etc.123
     

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