Macho vs. Century

[elder999]

You picked, probably, the 2 crappiest manufacturers of safety gear. Shinguards should cost $40-50. Gloves $50-70. Headgear $50-100. And this is for decent quality equipment. Bringing that Macho or Century crap into, say Muay Thai...and you're going to wreck yourself or the other guy you're sparring.

What's wrong now?

 

[Ironbear24]

What's wrong now?

Looks like they are going at it pretty hard without gear. I guess that pops his mma spars harder than TMA bubble.

 

[Drose427]

Looks like they are going at it pretty hard without gear. I guess that pops his mma spars harder than TMA bubble.

And apparently with more respect..

 

[Ironbear24]

And apparently with more respect..

Mma athletes respect each other. At least the professional ones do. Mma is a good sport that I have respect for but sadly it's fanbase tends to be full of buffoons who think it is the best **** ever and everything else just sucks in comparison.

Then go around with an enormous chip on their shoulders.

 

[Dinkydoo]

Looks like they are going at it pretty hard without gear. I guess that pops his mma spars harder than TMA bubble.

To be fair, this isn't sparring, this is a full contact Kyokushin competition. And if we're talking about TMA sparring, these guys tend to spar much harder than the typical TMA club. Not saying there aren't other styles out there that train like this, but it's unfortunately quite rare to find in the UK.

Regardless,

I'm not sure why the emphasis on MartialTalk these days is primarily around debating hard sparring. Personally speaking, I did quite a lot of hard sparring at an old club and the gains I made during that time were minimal - I got a few black eyes though. Sparring hard every session actually caused me to resent and fear that part of class, which is less than ideal for a learning environment. I now train at a place that has some pretty high level fighters training there, yet what I see mostly from them is technical sparring, with the odd hard contact session thrown in once every couple of weeks or so. Even then, the hard sparring doesn't resemble that boxing club someone posted a link to earlier; rarely is anyone sacrificing technique just to throw hard and brawl with their training partner.

 

[elder999]

To be fair, this isn't sparring, this is a full contact Kyokushin competition. And if we're talking about TMA sparring, these guys tend to spar much harder than the typical TMA club. Not saying there aren't other styles out there that train like this, but it's unfortunately quite rare to find in the UK.

Regardless,

I'm not sure why the emphasis on MartialTalk these days is primarily around debating hard sparring. Personally speaking, I did quite a lot of hard sparring at an old club and the gains I made during that time were minimal - I got a few black eyes though. Sparring hard every session actually caused me to resent and fear that part of class, which is less than ideal for a learning environment. I now train at a place that has some pretty high level fighters training there, yet what I see mostly from them is technical sparring, with the odd hard contact session thrown in once every couple of weeks or so. Even then, the hard sparring doesn't resemble that boxing club someone posted a link to earlier; rarely is anyone sacrificing technique just to throw hard and brawl with their training partner.

I'm one of "these guys," and have been since I was 13 years old....43 years ago....we do have varying degrees of sparring in class, but are strong believers in full-contact. Some clubs use protection - similar to the "crappiest products out there"- Macho and Century, if not, for all I know, those very products, for sparring in class..... as a kid, and young adult, we didn't spar hard every session, or even spar every session-once or twice a week, we had classes that focused entirely on fundamentals, drills and kata....


Hell, sometimes it was just kata-go figure.

 

[Dinkydoo]

I'm one of "these guys," and have been since I was 13 years old....43 years ago....we do have varying degrees of sparring in class, but are strong believers in full-contact. Some clubs use protection - similar to the "crappiest products out there"- Macho and Century, if not, for all I know, those very products, for sparring in class..... as a kid, and young adult, we didn't spar hard every session, or even spar every session-once or twice a week, we had classes that focused entirely on fundamentals, drills and kata....


Hell, sometimes it was just kata-go figure.

For the avoidance of doubt, the second part of my previous post was not supposed to be in relation to the kyokushin video I commented on initially.

I have a lot of respect for kyokushin because somehow, despite many other traditional styles failing to do so, they appear to maintain what seems to be a healthy mixture of technique, compliant and resistant partner work within their syllabus - from school to school.

My comments were aimed at those who believe the type of boxing sparring posted earlier should be part of your regular curriculum. Once a week training balls to the wall like that is going to result in some injuries, in my opinion.

 

[hoshin1600]

"Are you serious? He's a noob WHITE BELT who doesn't even have his sparring gear yet"

Um....I started training in 1978 and I don't have any sparing equipment,,,does that make me a noob?
Friedrice....you should keep in mind that to many of us here you might be a noob too.
Your comments seem very limited in knowledge to me.
I get your point, foam gear is not for contact but for the majority of schools out there, it's what they use and not because they are trying to make a buck.

 

[drop bear]

A boxing glove on the heavy bag won't last very long if you are a hard hitter. A training glove will last a bit longer. But if you want a long lasting glove for heavy bag work you should be using a 'Bag Glove'.

I have had no issue with boxing gloves on a bag. A good pair will last a poor pair will desintigrate. A bag wont really mean tje difference.

 

[Ironbear24]

I have had no issue with boxing gloves on a bag. A good pair will last a poor pair will desintigrate. A bag wont really mean tje difference.

Or just not use gloves and allow your fists and form to improve.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Or just not use gloves and allow your fists and form to improve.

This is a different debate in and of itself. Whether it's good/'cost-effective' to cause the microfractions that harden your fists. I used to be all for it, and would do it myself, but over the past year or so I've noticed that a lot of members on both side of my family over 50 have arthritis. I don't know if there's been any evidence for a correlation b/w microfractions and arthritis, but it would not surprise me if there is, so I stopped doing that. I train open hand strikes a lot more now, and am perfectly willing to accept that I might have to use open handed strikes in SD, and gloves in the dojo in order to possibly help delay arthritis.

 

[drop bear]

Or just not use gloves and allow your fists and form to improve.

Sagittal Band Tear "Boxer's Knuckle"

My hands dont have an issue bare knucle punching a guy in the head occasionally. They do have an issue with repeated heavy bag work.

 

[FriedRice]

What's wrong now?

What's the big deal? No punches to the face. MMA is everything here, plus full elbows and knees to the face. In the full mount, raining full elbows down at an angle is way, way worse.

 

[FriedRice]

Looks like they are going at it pretty hard without gear. I guess that pops his mma spars harder than TMA bubble.

You've never seen MMA fights before? Full elbows, knees and kicks to the face.

They're not even punching to the face here in Kyokushin. What's the big deal?

 

[Ironbear24]

You've never seen MMA fights before? Full elbows, knees and kicks to the face.

They're not even punching to the face here in Kyokushin. What's the big deal?

In mma they have gear. Punches to the face are allowed here with gear on. There are different types of karate tournaments. Two most common are no gear and no punches to the face, you can still kicks though to the face.

Gear on = anything aside from hitting the neck. If you want to believe mma is the best go ahead, no one will really care if you wish to have that opinion. But when you act like it is doing something that is so unique and special, that is where you are simply wrong.

 

[FriedRice]

"Are you serious? He's a noob WHITE BELT who doesn't even have his sparring gear yet"

Um....I started training in 1978 and I don't have any sparing equipment,,,does that make me a noob?
Friedrice....you should keep in mind that to many of us here you might be a noob too.
Your comments seem very limited in knowledge to me.
I get your point, foam gear is not for contact but for the majority of schools out there, it's what they use and not because they are trying to make a buck.

Depends. You could have started training in 1978 and stopped 2 months later then picked back up years later, then quit after a few months again....etc. If you kept training since 1978, up until now and never had any sparring gear, then maybe you're just a kata master and fighting wasn't for you. So you'd be a noob at fighting probably but great at doing forms.

 

[FriedRice]

In mma they have gear.

Again, have you seen an MMA fight before? What gear are you talking about that are on the elbows, knees, and feet when they throw full elbows, knees and kicks to the body, head and right in the face? Then you get to clinch and throw a 100 knees to someone's face if you wanted. Gets even worse when you full mount someone on the ground and start raining elbows to the face.

How is your Kyokushin video, where not even head punches are allowed, come even close to the brutality of average MMA?

Punches to the face are allowed here with gear on.

Then why won't they put on gloves so they can punch to the face? This was why Karatekas started Kickboxing in like the 1980's....because Kyokushin was too soft for them.

There are different types of karate tournaments. Two most common are no gear and no punches to the face, you can still kicks though to the face.

Yea and can you knee and elbow to the face like in MMA?

Gear on = anything aside from hitting the neck. If you want to believe mma is the best go ahead, no one will really care if you wish to have that opinion. But when you act like it is doing something that is so unique and special, that is where you are simply wrong.

MMA is way more brutal. If you wanted to get overly excited over a Kyukoshin video, then go ahead, just don't try to talk about MMA when you don't have a full understanding of it.

 

[drop bear]

What's the big deal? No punches to the face. MMA is everything here, plus full elbows and knees to the face. In the full mount, raining full elbows down at an angle is way, way worse.

Honestly they each have their dangers.

 

[drop bear]

Looks like they are going at it pretty hard without gear. I guess that pops his mma spars harder than TMA bubble.

Tma should Spar hard. And should compete. They become better fighters that way.

Hence kyokkushin.

 

[Andrew Green]

Then why won't they put on gloves so they can punch to the face? This was why Karatekas started Kickboxing in like the 1980's....because Kyokushin was too soft for them.

Check your history, you're off by a bit. 1974 the PKA was formed, kickboxing was already in play by then.

MMA is way more brutal. If you wanted to get overly excited over a Kyukoshin video, then go ahead, just don't try to talk about MMA when you don't have a full understanding of it.

Can I? I've trained and corned amateur and pro fighters.

Neither are really more brutal, just different. Kyokushin is rough, the goal is to knock your opponent down and in a fairly short time period. It's fast and furious, you can't clinch or takedown if you get in trouble. The feeling out period isn't there. Not to mention the truly crazy crap like the 100 man kumite.

MMA has the most inclusive ruleset perhaps, but that doesn't mean other arts aren't as brutal.