LE Myths and misconceptions

[Tgace]

This thread is for things people commonly believe or wonder about when it comes to police and police procedure.

1. Undercover cops have to tell you they are LE when asked- No

2. If a cop doesn't mirandize me at the time of arrest then my arrest is unlawful and/or will be dismissed- No. Miranda only matters if you are/were questioned while in custody. And if the police use your answers against you or use them to obtain evidence against you. No questions no need....and no asking your name and address don't count.

3. Putting a car on the street and waiting for someone to steal it is not entrapment.

4. We will dust for prints and collect DNA when someone steals your lawn ornaments. -Not usually.

...any other things you can think of or wondered about?

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[jks9199]

We can always find fingerprints, and the fingerprints will always identify the suspect. No, and no. It's pretty rare to get usable prints, and rarer still for them to match someone in the system.

A cop can easily transfer agencies, with no loss of position, etc. Nope. Change agencies, and you usually start at the bottom. (And, no, most street cops don't aspire to be FBI agents. Quite a few don't even want to be detectives.)

 

[arnisador]

4. We will dust for prints and collect DNA when someone steals your lawn ornaments. -Not usually.

There was a string of car break-ins on our street one night a few years ago. Ours was parked in the driveway and for better or worse one of the kids had left a door unlocked so they opened it without damaging the car and stole a fair amount of loose change. Most of it was in a container they had to open but had left there. I was disappointed they didn't dust for fingerprints. The cop explained to me in a somewhat condescending manner that it wasn't like on CSI where there's a magic database of all criminals' fingerprints. I figured it would've been worth hoping for a hit and that more likely than that it'd be worth knowing when the 15 y.o. that probably did it was caught two years later for something bigger. We were disappointed.

I've had great luck getting written warnings rather than speeding tickets. I've been going 10-15 mph over the limit when it's happened. I'm polite and respectful, but even I'm surprised that with a written warning per year for the past 3 years I haven't gotten one yet. How often do you cut someone a break?

 

[jks9199]

There was a string of car break-ins on our street one night a few years ago. Ours was parked in the driveway and for better or worse one of the kids had left a door unlocked so they opened it without damaging the car and stole a fair amount of loose change. Most of it was in a container they had to open but had left there. I was disappointed they didn't dust for fingerprints. The cop explained to me in a somewhat condescending manner that it wasn't like on CSI where there's a magic database of all criminals' fingerprints. I figured it would've been worth hoping for a hit and that more likely than that it'd be worth knowing when the 15 y.o. that probably did it was caught two years later for something bigger. We were disappointed.

Dusting a car for prints makes a huge mess. Fingerprint powder is like copier toner or talcum powder; it's very fine, and sticks to everything, and hard to clean up. Add that a lot of surfaces in a car just plain are not good for collecting prints, though more advanced (and more destructive...) approaches like superglue can be more effective, and it's often not very productive. I'll often not print a car for a petit larceny, unless there's a bigger reason. I will, however, look for prints, and if there's something (like that container you described) that might be more amenable to successful processing, I'll do it.

As to the database... The simple fact is that, even if I get a perfect print, it's useless if it's not in the system. So, they add my unidentified print to the system, and 3 or 4 years later, maybe, a hit comes back. Not easy to prosecute, if the statute of limitations hasn't passed, and of limited utility in future cases. I had a case thrown out by a judge who (without warning and incorrectly) held a probable cause hearing in place of a bond hearing because I the prosecutor couldn't say that the victim had never had their car in the suspect's neighborhoods... Even though that's about as likely as finding my prints on one of Bob's cameras.

I've had great luck getting written warnings rather than speeding tickets. I've been going 10-15 mph over the limit when it's happened. I'm polite and respectful, but even I'm surprised that with a written warning per year for the past 3 years I haven't gotten one yet. How often do you cut someone a break?

Probably 2:1 warnings to cites, and most of those verbal rather than written, depending on what's going on and specifics of assignments (like if I work a traffic detail with an emphasis on citing... than I'm writing almost everything...).

 

[Tames D]

There was a string of car break-ins on our street one night a few years ago. Ours was parked in the driveway and for better or worse one of the kids had left a door unlocked so they opened it without damaging the car and stole a fair amount of loose change. Most of it was in a container they had to open but had left there. I was disappointed they didn't dust for fingerprints. The cop explained to me in a somewhat condescending manner that it wasn't like on CSI where there's a magic database of all criminals' fingerprints. I figured it would've been worth hoping for a hit and that more likely than that it'd be worth knowing when the 15 y.o. that probably did it was caught two years later for something bigger. We were disappointed.

I've had great luck getting written warnings rather than speeding tickets. I've been going 10-15 mph over the limit when it's happened. I'm polite and respectful, but even I'm surprised that with a written warning per year for the past 3 years I haven't gotten one yet. How often do you cut someone a break?

I've never heard of a written warning. I've been pulled over and let go without getting a ticket. Cops have always been respectful to me.

 

[Tames D]

Police will patrol expensive neighborhood tracts that have been hit by crime. NO.

 

[jks9199]

I've never heard of a written warning. I've been pulled over and let go without getting a ticket. Cops have always been respectful to me.

Some agencies require written documentation of every traffic stop. In others, it's a way to document the reason for a stop without actually putting a traffic charge on the driver.

 

[ballen0351]

There was a string of car break-ins on our street one night a few years ago. Ours was parked in the driveway and for better or worse one of the kids had left a door unlocked so they opened it without damaging the car and stole a fair amount of loose change. Most of it was in a container they had to open but had left there. I was disappointed they didn't dust for fingerprints. The cop explained to me in a somewhat condescending manner that it wasn't like on CSI where there's a magic database of all criminals' fingerprints. I figured it would've been worth hoping for a hit and that more likely than that it'd be worth knowing when the 15 y.o. that probably did it was caught two years later for something bigger. We were disappointed.

I've had great luck getting written warnings rather than speeding tickets. I've been going 10-15 mph over the limit when it's happened. I'm polite and respectful, but even I'm surprised that with a written warning per year for the past 3 years I haven't gotten one yet. How often do you cut someone a break?

We ate required to dust for prints on all theft from autos.b 9 times out of 10 we recover nothing and as stated we created a huge nasty mess.

 

[arnisador]

Some agencies require written documentation of every traffic stop. In others, it's a way to document the reason for a stop without actually putting a traffic charge on the driver.

These have been computer-generated printouts that were handed to me.

We ate required to dust for prints on all theft from autos.b 9 times out of 10 we recover nothing and as stated we created a huge nasty mess.

It was most likely a kid but around here could also have been a meth user with a record. It was a container they would've had to unscrew to get at the change inside so I figured there might be prints on it. It wasn't part of the car and damaging it would've not been a concern to us. We weren't upset by this--we knew it was unlikely they'd catch anyone--but had hoped they'd do this anyway.

 

[Tgace]

Here's another one...

Your local PD has the ability to tap your phone.

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[arnisador]

I've been assured that you're all getting filthy rich on overtime and boosting your pensions by going nuts with overtime in the last few years of your careers.

I do sometimes look at the overtime amounts and wonder why they don't just hire more police officers. I know sometimes it's an ongoing emergency or an unpredictable-length court appearance but at other times it seems like agencies would want more people for more flexibility and less paying time-and-a-half.

 

[Tgace]

I've been assured that you're all getting filthy rich on overtime and boosting your pensions by going nuts with overtime in the last few years of your careers.

I do sometimes look at the overtime amounts and wonder why they don't just hire more police officers. I know sometimes it's an ongoing emergency or an unpredictable-length court appearance but at other times it seems like agencies would want more people for more flexibility and less paying time-and-a-half.

There's always some sort of overtime available. From simple manpower issues like people out sick, injured, on vacation etc. to grant funded overtime for target enforcement, DWI checkpoints etc. In my PD at least, most OT is due to the latter. OT is given out on a seniority basis and as an officer approaches retirement he/she will usually start signing up for as many OT details as possible.

Where I work most of the "filthy rich cop" stories are about cashing in unused sick/vacation/compensatory time at retirement more than it is about OT. Instead of paying us for our time, some employers thought it would be wiser to forego raises in lieu of letting us save up vacation/comp time instead of capping it.

 

[jks9199]

I've been assured that you're all getting filthy rich on overtime and boosting your pensions by going nuts with overtime in the last few years of your careers.

I do sometimes look at the overtime amounts and wonder why they don't just hire more police officers. I know sometimes it's an ongoing emergency or an unpredictable-length court appearance but at other times it seems like agencies would want more people for more flexibility and less paying time-and-a-half.

It's my understanding that in at least some cities, it is true that your pension calculations include overtime, and you'll see officers working insane hours their last few years to bump it up. Those are also unionized departments, and it's in their contract...

As to overtime more generically... It's not always as simple as "hire more cops." In some cases, that overtime is off-duty assignments like traffic control on construction projects, grant funded overtime, or special details (like the 4th of July or a parade). You can't (or shouldn't...) use the guys working the street to do these assignments -- and some of them are paid for by the construction company or event. And other overtime is unavoidable and can't be shifted to someone who's on straight time. Nobody else can testify in many of my cases; they're MY cases. Late arrests and required documentation pop up, too. Most agencies have a pretty good idea how much OT they'll use in a given year, and figure that into the budget. Coverage and staff size is a separate calculation. And, at the moment, I know several agencies are getting hit hard by recruiting problems and retirements... and it takes most of a year to put a cop on the street once hired.

 

[oftheherd1]

Dusting a car for prints makes a huge mess. Fingerprint powder is like copier toner or talcum powder; it's very fine, and sticks to everything, and hard to clean up. Add that a lot of surfaces in a car just plain are not good for collecting prints, though more advanced (and more destructive...) approaches like superglue can be more effective, and it's often not very productive. I'll often not print a car for a petit larceny, unless there's a bigger reason. I will, however, look for prints, and if there's something (like that container you described) that might be more amenable to successful processing, I'll do it.

As to the database... The simple fact is that, even if I get a perfect print, it's useless if it's not in the system. So, they add my unidentified print to the system, and 3 or 4 years later, maybe, a hit comes back. Not easy to prosecute, if the statute of limitations hasn't passed, and of limited utility in future cases. I had a case thrown out by a judge who (without warning and incorrectly) held a probable cause hearing in place of a bond hearing because I the prosecutor couldn't say that the victim had never had their car in the suspect's neighborhoods... Even though that's about as likely as finding my prints on one of Bob's cameras.


...

People would be surprised at the places that may yield fingerprints. They are more surprised that prints, especially usable prints cannot be found everywhere, and used to solve every crime within one hour, including commercial breaks. Fingerprint powder does leave a mess. I used to try and tell people the best ways I knew to clean up, but certainly did not spend my valuable time as a butler, which some people seem to expect.

Often I think police make a decision not to fingerprint for the reason that it may be somewhat destructive and there is a low expected return, and the crime may not be serious enough to warrant the trouble for the victim.

There was a string of car break-ins on our street one night a few years ago. Ours was parked in the driveway and for better or worse one of the kids had left a door unlocked so they opened it without damaging the car and stole a fair amount of loose change. Most of it was in a container they had to open but had left there. I was disappointed they didn't dust for fingerprints. The cop explained to me in a somewhat condescending manner that it wasn't like on CSI where there's a magic database of all criminals' fingerprints. I figured it would've been worth hoping for a hit and that more likely than that it'd be worth knowing when the 15 y.o. that probably did it was caught two years later for something bigger. We were disappointed.

I've had great luck getting written warnings rather than speeding tickets. I've been going 10-15 mph over the limit when it's happened. I'm polite and respectful, but even I'm surprised that with a written warning per year for the past 3 years I haven't gotten one yet. How often do you cut someone a break?

When I processed crime scenes, it was our policy to process for prints if there was any chance there were any. I once went to a crime scene which had been processed by the local police. They left a lift behind thinking it was of no value. I collected it and it was in fact traced to the perpetrator. But that doesn't happen often, especially with partial prints. There has to be enough there for an examiner to be able to conclude there is a match to a certain standard. And there has to be a suspect to compare the partial to.

We can always find fingerprints, and the fingerprints will always identify the suspect. No, and no. It's pretty rare to get usable prints, and rarer still for them to match someone in the system.

A cop can easily transfer agencies, with no loss of position, etc. Nope. Change agencies, and you usually start at the bottom. (And, no, most street cops don't aspire to be FBI agents. Quite a few don't even want to be detectives.)

People who watch CSI or the like think if there is anything there it will show up in a search of the system. There may not be enough to send a print in to the FBI, or even the State system, but is a suspect is identified, there may if one is lucky, be enough for a usable match, as I mentioned above. But in fact, it isn't the sure thing the TV makes it sound like.

We ate required to dust for prints on all theft from autos.b 9 times out of 10 we recover nothing and as stated we created a huge nasty mess.

That was the policy when I processed crime scenes as well. I think it is best. Better not to get a hit on something you have lifted, than let a perp get away because you didn't look for whatever reason.

 

[Tgace]

In my PD patrol officers do not lift prints so a detective would need to be called in...on a busy day, or on a weekend, or in the middle of the night, an OT call in of a detective to look for prints in a car where loose change was taken just isn't gonna happen.

If this is part of a string of crimes or a special circumstance where "all the stops are pulled" then maybe. For a routine non felony, non personal injury crime? Not likely. That being said. If something portable may have prints on it (a jar, a drawer, etc.) the officer typically will collect it for "in house processing" at a later time.

And to be cynical, how much money and time should be invested in a crime where...even if an arrest was made...all that is gonna happen is the offender being given a plea to probation or time served?

 

[jks9199]

I'll process for prints myself; I started carrying my own kit when I was on a squad with a "trained" evidence tech who wouldn't take the time to do it right. And I don't want it to seem like I don't or won't do it... I just make a practical call. Many vehicle tampering/larceny from vehicle calls, the victim has already contaminated the scene beyond hope when we get there. I start by looking for prints visually, before I dust. If I decide not to process further, I explain it to the victim, so that they do understand why I didn't.

As to cleaning up... There's a functional minimum. I'm not going to leave your house or car trashed -- but I'm not detailing it, either. I'll wipe off what I can reasonably, and offer tips for thorough cleaning. And I use common sense, like putting newspaper or something down before I dust in the house. (Knew someone who used black powder in a spotlessly white carpet... Didn't go over well since they didn't do anything to minimize the mess.)

I'll also collect and submit for processing (or at least collect so a detective can make the call) items that might be better processed in a lab setting.

 

[Steve]

All cops like donuts. Clearly, a myth. Everyone knows that you guys eat muffins at Starbucks.

 

[arnisador]

If this is part of a string of crimes or a special circumstance where "all the stops are pulled" then maybe. For a routine non felony, non personal injury crime? Not likely. That being said. If something portable may have prints on it (a jar, a drawer, etc.) the officer typically will collect it for "in house processing" at a later time.

And to be cynical, how much money and time should be invested in a crime where...even if an arrest was made...all that is gonna happen is the offender being given a plea to probation or time served?

I understand that reasoning. I pay the taxes for that processing. This was a string of cars on one street but had been happening in a different neighborhood every so many nights for a long time--a mix of meth users and broke teenagers, they guessed--and the cop I spoke with said that he personally took at least one such call every day. Meth drives so much of our crime here.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

It is less expensive on the agency (and the tax payers) to pay overtime than hire more police. With OT you're only paying time and a half or double time. Hiring a new person means money for the hiring process (which isn't cheap), salary, pension, benefits etc which is substantially more than simply paying OT. Veterans bumping up their pension with later year OT is a perk for having to risk their lives on a daily basis for 25-30 years. It is more than reasonable. Same thing if the agency/state has a DROP program. It is a very reasonable benefit for the job in question.

 

[Tgace]

Slight tangent...the "I'm a taxpayer" thing...

Here its property taxes that "pay my salary". So if you are a homeowner do I owe you a different standard of service than I do to a person renting an apartment? Is that guy "paying my salary" or is it the landlord? Since I own a home in my jurisdiction am I paying my own salary?


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