Kyusho Jitsu

[ppko]

Hi ppko,

I'd like to know what constitutes an "attack" on kyushu jitsu? This is not meant to be antogonistic in anyway at all, but I'd like to know if this thread is open to disagreement. Is this only a thread for those people who agree with the concepts of your art?

I for one do believe in pressure points for pain application, but I have yet to see empirical studies that support the efficacy of kyushu jitsu for knockouts etc. Are you willing to discuss this, or should I keep such questioning to myslef? Out of respect, I wish to not deviate from the intent of your topic.

Thanks and welcome!

I respect your question I just do not wish to get into a discussion on whos art is better. I don't want people to dismiss what I have to say just because they don't believe in Kyusho Jitsu in my oppinion they should not be here to attack me but somewhere else so that they can write about what they know.
Yes I am willing to discuss anything pressure point related, I for one believe in the knock outs from personal experience (on the street and in the dojo). The studies that you are talking about I am not sure where to find them but I do know that they happened as I will be a part of the next study.

 

[Makalakumu]

ppko

How closely is kyoshu jutsu technique tied to the pressure point techniques taught by Earl Montague? He has a two volume encyclapedia on pressure points and dim-mak.

upnorthkyosa

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Dim-Mak & Kyusho Jitsu are the same art.

 

[ppko]

ppko

How closely is kyoshu jutsu technique tied to the pressure point techniques taught by Earl Montague? He has a two volume encyclapedia on pressure points and dim-mak.

upnorthkyosa

They are the exact same, I don't know for sure but I think that he only teaches a certain amount of pressure points, and we teach 360 points to attack, can someone elaborate on that that knows Mr. Montague better.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I know Mr. Montaigue is a Taiji practitioner. His books cover all the same points as Dillman's.

 

[ppko]

Thank you like I said I don't know him but of him

 

[RRouuselot]

I know Mr. Montaigue is a Taiji practitioner. His books cover all the same points as Dillman's.

You might want to contact Pat McCarthy.......he knows or at least has met Earle Montaigue and might be able to help.

 

[RRouuselot]

After reading this thread and seeing the mpegs attached to it I have to say that its folks like that that give Kyusho a bad reputation among serious MA people.



I have seen Dillman, seen a video of him when he was first exposed to true kyusho/atemi and saw him get KOed by my teacher for the first time.....it was caught on video, know that after that he went to my teachers Seminars armed with a video camera (didn't work out at all just taped stuff), claims/claimed he can do "no touch KOs" (big joke), now we see this garbage straight out of the movie "Dune"......kiai jutsu (please ).....what's next "kill words"?

The one video where the man is claiming that he gets more Ki in his technique when he yells.......hogwash........look at it again.....by pulling his arms back (which he does) the body mechanics force a more painful position on the attacker thereby causing him to submit.



I have also had some "Dillman-nites" ( supposedly 4th dans) come to my place in Tokyo.....not very good and couldn’t make a single technique work on me or any of my students. In fact they were typical "beer gut Sensei" that talked a lot could do hardly anything.

Technique talks and BS walks........

If you are looking for true Kyusho/atemi techniques please look somewhere else besides Dillman's people/ex-students.



Folks this is just another phase in the marketing ploys thought up by those that wish to take advantage of the under exposed would be MA people.

NOTHING takes the place of hard work and diligence.

Don't be fooled by people that would have you believe this Kia Jutsu garbage is kyusho/atemi or even connected to it in anyway, shape or form.
Kyusho can be an effective supplement to Karate if done properly.......but what these people propose is a joke......plain and simple.

 

[ppko]

After reading this thread and seeing the mpegs attached to it I have to say that its folks like that that give Kyusho a bad reputation among serious MA people.



I have seen Dillman, seen a video of him when he was first exposed to true kyusho/atemi and saw him get KOed by my teacher for the first time.....it was caught on video, know that after that he went to my teachers Seminars armed with a video camera (didn't work out at all just taped stuff), claims/claimed he can do "no touch KOs" (big joke), now we see this garbage straight out of the movie "Dune"......kiai jutsu (please ).....what's next "kill words"?

The one video where the man is claiming that he gets more Ki in his technique when he yells.......hogwash........look at it again.....by pulling his arms back (which he does) the body mechanics force a more painful position on the attacker thereby causing him to submit.



I have also had some "Dillman-nites" ( supposedly 4th dans) come to my place in Tokyo.....not very good and couldn’t make a single technique work on me or any of my students. In fact they were typical "beer gut Sensei" that talked a lot could do hardly anything.

Technique talks and BS walks........

If you are looking for true Kyusho/atemi techniques please look somewhere else besides Dillman's people/ex-students.



Folks this is just another phase in the marketing ploys thought up by those that wish to take advantage of the under exposed would be MA people.

NOTHING takes the place of hard work and diligence.

Don't be fooled by people that would have you believe this Kia Jutsu garbage is kyusho/atemi or even connected to it in anyway, shape or form.
Kyusho can be an effective supplement to Karate if done properly.......but what these people propose is a joke......plain and simple.

Now this is not a threat but if you do not believe than I invite you to my school so you can prove me and my instructor wrong.

Best Regards

 

[RRouuselot]

Now this is not a threat but if you do not believe than I invite you to my school so I can make you a believer

Best Regards

Well let me put it to you this way.......I have seen Dillman's technique and it didn't make me a believer and neither did some of his students.........I can't see as you would have anything new or different to show me.
But whatever.......if you think thats some sort of Kyusho go ahead.......

 

[RRouuselot]

I know Mr. Montaigue is a Taiji practitioner. His books cover all the same points as Dillman's.

I read an old Karate rag where Mr. Montaigue expressed his dislike for Dillman and for what he teaches..........I will try to find it.

 

[RRouuselot]

....... can someone elaborate on that that knows Mr. Montague better.

Can say that he knows better but at least he actually trained with the people he claims.........unlike Dillman who claims to have studied/gotten "seceret" info from Hohan Soken.......Yeah right........Hohan Soken has several senior students but the person he decides to bestow some secrets on is a foreigner he met for a couple of hours in a Hotel Lobby.........I don't think so.

 

[Kempojujutsu]

I read an old Karate rag where Mr. Montaigue expressed his dislike for Dillman and for what he teaches..........I will try to find it.

One of Mr Montaigue's books The Encyclopedia of Dim Mak. This is a direct quote from the book " In modern times we have seen certain people who have come across a minute part of dim mak such as the ability to cause knockout very easily by striking certain points on the body-go out and teach this openly to anyone who would pay money. We have seen thess same people giving others very high dan rankings after only a relatively short peroid of time. Worse we have heard these people saying that striking to cause KO is not dangerous and that anyone can do it!" This paragraph comes from The Montaigue Encyclopedia of Dim Mak. Preface page IX No name is mention but most can guess who he was talking about.

 

[ppko]

Well let me put it to you this way.......I have seen Dillman's technique and it didn't make me a believer and neither did some of his students.........I can't see as you would have anything new or different to show me.
But whatever.......if you think thats some sort of Kyusho go ahead.......

If you have a video of none of this working and of your instructor KOing George than lets see it if not than stop making false claims that you are either not able or willing to prove cause until I see what you are talking about or you come down to prove me wrong, I would suggest that you stop writing lies.

PPKO

 

[ppko]

Can say that he knows better but at least he actually trained with the people he claims.........unlike Dillman who claims to have studied/gotten "seceret" info from Hohan Soken.......Yeah right........Hohan Soken has several senior students but the person he decides to bestow some secrets on is a foreigner he met for a couple of hours in a Hotel Lobby.........I don't think so.

Ok I get it you are one of Mr Montegues students or another one of the many that learned from George and now say " No I didn't learn from George I knew this all along" well let me tell you somthing if it wasn't for GM George Dillman the Western hemisphere would never of know about pressure points, if George Dillman is a fraud than so is Wally Jay, the late Remy Presasand the hundreds of schools that we have world wide. I know that only legitimate instructors like yours (yeah right) would not have bestowed this upon anyone, because without GM George Dillman they wouldn't have known.

PPKO

 

[Kempojujutsu]

Actucally if Seiyu Oyata had not moved to the western hemisphere, no one would known about pressure points. Dillman just promoted to anyone he could.

Just to set the story straight, I am not anti-George Dillman. But my instructor has said the same things RRouuselot has said. I do not know RRouselot, only from MT. But the funny thing they both had the same instructor, who would happen to be Seiyu Oyata.

 

[Makalakumu]

I have learned Kyosho Jutsu from my instructor who learned from Mr. Darrin Coe who learned directly from Earl Montaigue. I have been taught that using these points to knock people out on a regular basis is dangerous. How does Mr. Dillman justify his usage? I mean no disrespect. I am looking for another opinion. That is all.

 

[Cruentus]

Ok I get it you are one of Mr Montegues students or another one of the many that learned from George and now say " No I didn't learn from George I knew this all along" well let me tell you somthing if it wasn't for GM George Dillman the Western hemisphere would never of know about pressure points, if George Dillman is a fraud than so is Wally Jay, the late Remy Presasand the hundreds of schools that we have world wide. I know that only legitimate instructors like yours (yeah right) would not have bestowed this upon anyone, because without GM George Dillman they wouldn't have known.

PPKO

A couple of things...

#1. Don't bring Wally Jay or Professor Presas into this conversation please. Just because they did "the big three" seminars together, this doesn't mean that one legitimizes the other. Also, I really hope that you are not saying that George Dillman is responsable for making Remy Presas or Wally Jay known. Both men are responsable for doing their own work, and making themselves known.

#2. RRouuslet is not a Erle Montegue guy. RRouuslet trained legitamitaly under Seiyu Oyata (please correct me if I am wrong Rob) and teaches legitamitly in Japan. Just because someone doesn't agree with your instructor, that doesn't mean that they are fraudulent, or unskilled, or whatever.

O.K.. That's it. I am staying neutral regarding Dillman out of respect for one my late instructor who traveled with him and was his friend. So don't think I am out to be a "Dillman basher"; there were just those couple of points that bothered me.

Now...where is your school located, out of curiosity? :uhyeah:

 

[Cruentus]

I have learned Kyosho Jutsu from my instructor who learned from Mr. Darrin Coe who learned directly from Earl Montaigue. I have been taught that using these points to knock people out on a regular basis is dangerous. How does Mr. Dillman justify his usage? I mean no disrespect. I am looking for another opinion. That is all.

Curious question...I thought that Montaigue was a Tai Chi guy who integrates pressurepoints? Who were his instructors?

 

[ppko]

A couple of things...

#1. Don't bring Wally Jay or Professor Presas into this conversation please. Just because they did "the big three" seminars together, this doesn't mean that one legitimizes the other. Also, I really hope that you are not saying that George Dillman is responsable for making Remy Presas or Wally Jay known. Both men are responsable for doing their own work, and making themselves known.

#2. RRouuslet is not a Erle Montegue guy. RRouuslet trained legitamitaly under Seiyu Oyata (please correct me if I am wrong Rob) and teaches legitamitly in Japan. Just because someone doesn't agree with your instructor, that doesn't mean that they are fraudulent, or unskilled, or whatever.

O.K.. That's it. I am staying neutral regarding Dillman out of respect for one my late instructor who traveled with him and was his friend. So don't think I am out to be a "Dillman basher"; there were just those couple of points that bothered me.

Now...where is your school located, out of curiosity? :uhyeah:

No I meant know disrespect to either Wally Jay or Remy as they are both responsible for their own success but both Wally and Remy promoted the pressure points and respected George just as much as he respected them I have respect for all of the big three my point was that these great martial artist would not have traveled with someone that teaches crap

about Rob I have know idea of his background but he is the one that disrespected me I am not out here to say that my art is better than yours or anyone elses I posted this thread for people that were interested in learning more about Kyusho not for people to down George
PPKO