Kung Fu vs MMA

Discussion in 'Chinese Martial Arts - General' started by Martial D, May 24, 2017.

  1. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    Well just to continue the chat like gents.........

    I dont really agree yes resistance is applied pressure and in that you develop power sensitivity so on realistically in full contact, I get that!

    We in Wing Chun and Jeet Kune or even for that matter my experience in doing Aiki Jiu Jitsu practiced full contact locking the joint and full on throws etc.

    We do this through drills and the wooden dummy exercises as well as sparring and full contact.

    So yes i agree somewhat but not as whole argument in your favor or to say in any way or form that some Kung Fu styles are not really practical and have been proven wrong that was said earlier in thread.

    That would really be said more about the practitioner not being aggressive enough or skilled enough to apply the necessary needed force and hit accurately at the target areas to immobilize or and trap/lock the opponent so on.

    How I'm reading your comment is, as if your saying thats the only way to learn beating each other senseless, oh no thats not learning but you are.........

    "Striking- the -Bull" is the Chinese saying so to speak.

    I'm stating the obvious I know but I'm making a point.

    First its through skills that are developed in various ways not just a hard beating

    • Pressure and Sensitivity Drills
    • Practicing movement like shadow boxing
    • A guy who mentored me in boxing for a short time had me doing countless hours of repetitive movement
    • Learning to move like pull back, bobbing, weaving, ducking and footwork skills are learn't through individual practical applications and exercises.
    EXAMPLE of Learning to move head and counter the best i can do in finding something relevant



    You first stumped me when I tried to share my view and opinion in post #201 here Kung Fu vs MMA

    But this also happened elsewhere in another post.

    Your saying that a demonstration is not real and you cant see the pressure and resistance I'm still saying you are partially incorrect as shown here..........



    A guy throws a forward punch its countered then followed through in a final arm lock, with a decent amount of contact without completely knocking the guy out, so not to cause permanent injury. starting @.040

    Now its at this point i want to address to be more specific and scientific that in reality in a street fight a guy would do exactly the same thing throwing a haymaker at your face and then you apply the same principle of the body mechanics and leverage they teach and train in.

    Which is done at full power and hard, fast, precise and following it through until its done finished and his given up.

    If he still resists then pull the arm out of the socket and finish with are hard thrust stomp kick to the jaw side of the face as your are still laying on the ground would be the way its done in Kung Fu San Soo also in Grav Maga.

    "Train Sport Think Street"!

    So to tell me that its not properly showing pressure is partially incorrect but I do understand what you mean and only came back to visit the thread to help you understand my view a little better I hope, in the discussion we are both in.

    I wish I could find a real fight using San Soo or Krav Maga to show the beauty of the art not the act of hurting but the aggressiveness of the art, its on that note I say I love it and put this matter to rest for me anyway and hope you can respect at least where I come from.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    You've confused "sparring" with "hard, full contact hitting". Sparring differs from drills in that your partner is trying to throw/hit and prevent you from throwing/hitting. You don't get that in drills. And one-step sparring (fed an attack meant to connect, which you counter with a technique) is closer to drilling than sparring, because your partner isn't trying to stop you. If they are, it turns into regular sparring.

    I can spar and still both hit and throw very gently.
     
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  3. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This isn't me. I'm always saying that I spar to learn. My belief in training is that sparring should never be so dangerous that the student isn't willing to take risks to learn and make mistakes that will result in being punched in the face, kicked, thrown, or joint locked. Students won't learn how to apply the techniques if the sparring is too brutal. They will only stick with things that makes them less like to make a mistake.

    Even at increased intensity the student should have enough control to pull off enough power or redirect punches just enough so that the punch isn't causing maximum damage. Students should have control over the technique before being allowed to spar. For me personally if I can't control my power then I shouldn't be sparring. People here who have read my messages before know I don't agree with beating each other senseless.
    This is a video of me sparring (I'm in the red head gear). You can see for yourself that I'm not trying to beat someone senseless.






    So anything that you say about beating people senseless isn't going to apply to me.
     
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  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That's because you thought I was judging the system. I was only speaking of the techniques that I saw as they were being displayed in the demo. I don't know enough about San Soo to speak about the system. I can however piece enough together to know if some techniques may or may not be effective, especially if they are similar to some of the techniques that I do. For example in Jimmy Woo used a clearing hand when he was doing those big punches. The clearing hand addresses the opponents guard. This is practical. The other guy didn't use a clearing hand which is not practical. If you don't deal with your opponents lead hand then you will get hit with that lead hand. There was also another video that I think you posted that said the big punches will throw the user off balance. This is only if that person's stance is not rooted. I throw bigger punches than that and I'm never off balance. So when I hear and see things like that, then I question the technique as demonstrated.

    Yes I'm saying that because you would have very little success in doing that same technique against me, or anyone else who know how to move out of danger or counter. I can guarantee that you won't nor anyone else from your school will be jumping on my back like a monkey. The moment I think you are going to try to take my back is the moment I'm going to change position.

    I can also guarantee that you no anyone else in your school is going to first kick me in my thigh and then grab my arm and throw me. I can also tell you that I'm not going to hunch over after being punched in the gut unless it's a specific type of punch that most people don't do. Unfortunately this type of punch doesn't work if the hand is gloved so I'm not going to hunch over.

    If I throw a forward punch then you can count on something else following it.
     
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  5. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    Right copy that now as you now posted video to demonstrate what you do.

    I better understand the environment setting you are doing it in.

    I also see you have supervisors that stop certain throws that could be fatal in reality crushing the upper spine and neck areas.

    It would be fun to spar with you guys and show you some other stuff that I put into practice.

    From what i see its more freestyle full contact sparring and adding some martial art movement/technique when possible or able to

    Thats what I did allot of and you exchange blows for sure adding pressure and resistance and still keep it friendly with bounds of fighting and learning.

    No different than full boxing sparring as well.

    i see the case you make in response to San Soo and I would like to see that in the manner you speak of I did look for videos nothing found. :(

    Well have fun thanks for sharing!
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That's the reality of martial arts and fighting. We do what we can when possible. Until then we move around try not to get hit with anything to dangerous and when the moment is correct we unleash a martial art technique.

    This is not always a bad thing. It means you can be a first. As far as I know, my school is the first school in the U.S. to post Jow Ga sparring videos. The only other Jow Ga school that I know that spars are 2 Jow Ga schools in Australia.

    It may be an opportunity to test your skills in a friendly sparring match where you can represent San Soo beyond a demo. Just make sure you use control and stay away from the techniques that may cause really bad injuries. For example, fake eye pokes can turn into real eye pokes in sparring simply because your sparring partner moved in closer than you expected. Same with kicks to the knees. Techniques like that are too risky to do during sparring and can cause serious damage. I yell out students when I see that their knees are straight during sparring simply for the fact that is the most vulnerable position for a knee to be in.
     
  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Oh the other thing is that you have a lot of pride in San Soo so make sure you keep that and be a good representation of the system that you train.
     
  8. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    No JowGaWolf you misunderstood me here, I don't train in the Kung Fu San Soo art I just highly like it and have done extensive research on it and I know people in the US that do this style, its hard to find these martial art styles here in Australia they are disappearing, sadly.

    Thats why I was so passionate not proud or angry but I was feeling like when a child is told he cant have ice-cream :blackeye: LoL

    However I did Kung Fu Southern style for a short period the instructors name is Frank Greco @ 4th dan Level but he discontinued teaching. so I moved on to Wing Chun.

    I can't remember exactly what style of Kung Fu it was i would have to check some documents put away but i liked it allot and he was really a tough dood an ex bouncer / street fighter in early days and had won some competitions fights.

    We would start training a 5.00pm and finish at 10.30 -11.00 pm and only for $5.00 a lesson not many people do that nowadays here.

    I miss him he was great to talk to and made time for me, I think he had marriage issues or family issues of some sort, he really was one of the best martial artists i met he was big dood too, this was over 20 years ago.

    Dont see me as a bad person with attitude I'm very approachable and chatty and passionate about lots of things that I like.

    For example motorcycles I love them, I have owned 3 different types of Honda VFR's 800 and fell in love with VFRs since the first one I bought.

    They are like Ducati's but at a cheaper price and once you mod them and dyno tune them they are a beast and a great ride, i just wish i was 20 years old again LoL

    Things I like........

    • Wine and good food
    • Technology
    • Motorcycles
    • UFC
    • Martial Arts
    • Studying personal and academics
    • Camping
    • Cycling
    • Hiking
    • Kayacking
    • Video recording
    • ........etc......... I keep adding as I get older LoL

    Just heaps of stuff I Iike and when I get into something you cant shut me up I take it by the horns so to speak.

    Also yes I can be over-bearing but thats just me getting involved into something, people around me just love for who i am and understand this as part of who I am.

    Well thats enough about me tell me more about yourself................

    Anyway take care m8
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  9. Martial D

    Martial D Master Black Belt

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    There are no 'dans', or even belts in CMA, and 'kung fu' isn't something anyone that trained in a cma would use to describe what they trained.

    If you insist on BSing at least do a bit of research first.
     
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  10. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    Well 25 years ago training under this gent there was and if I recall correctly he was 4 level dan why would I lie about someones else rank LoL

    I just googled this quickly if helps - Kung Fu Belts - Martial Arts Guy

    But believe what you want you dont impress me with this evil horned attitude of yours either young lad.

    You are making absurd comments indicative of you true actions and feeling of hostility and dislike in many of your comments now quit it will you!

    I'm not here to make people love me, either you like someone all you dont but respect that person without the malicious intent based on Forum Rules that you should follow.

    Also to add I'm not here to prove myself or answer to you m8 I'm 45 with kids and a wife you are what nothing to me, I'm here to chat and share in conversation, whether you like it or not matters not to me in the slightest is that any clearer for you because you have done this for over a week or so, pull it back a little I do understand your point but you are choosing to be malicious in nature that I wont accept at all.

    So please refrain from calling Forum members condescending and ridiculing names you might want to revise the rules or speak to a moderator on this privately

    Or we can continue to speak to each other somewhat kindly as at least use the express.....

    "I agree to disagree"............ and leave it at that!

    In that manner it grants you good standing and others don't have take to your baiting argumentative approach at least thats I how I perceive your intent across many threads now.

    So take it as friendly advisement or not is your choice bud!

    Not here for a fight but a good conversation that will not always prove easy and I also get things wrong I'm not perfect but I do try trust me I do.

    Cheers m8
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  11. Martial D

    Martial D Master Black Belt

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    Yes, my true feelings. I don't like liars and pretenders.

    Why not just tell it like it is...you are a fan of Bruce Lee movies and like to talk about this stuff, but have no real experience with any of it.

    At least that would be honest, and respectful of your environment.
     
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  12. FighterTwister

    FighterTwister Blue Belt

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    Okay lets discuss this, so because I like Kung -Fu San Soo, Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do and all that Bruce Lee taught with the many books and videos etc I'm a liar and a fanboy and what ever else you want to insult me with okay

    Lets analyze this....................

    You make claims that thousands of people not just myself that follow in some form or way and like all the above are less than martial art members of the community giving you a sense of superiority based on the knowledge and awareness you have.

    How interesting and you judge character on what exactly a hunch or a crystal ball or do know someone I know, what exactly grants you this privilege I might ask or how do you know anything about me at all?

    I mean i really want to know let me know tell me what I need to know since you have provoked and poked consistently and all I'm doing here is picking off what you write about what you know about me so please show me something?

    I mean do you hear yourself?

    How do you know or not know who where or when I have trained with or what i did or have eaten for breakfast yesterday for that matter?

    Your comments are by nature void of any real argument or substance just your own dilemma of disliking what doesn't fit your understanding.

    You have a complex in the form of narcissistic personality disorder as we don't know each other personally nor do you have any idea of who I am nor the right to judge what I like doing be it smashing a mook jong for fun or reading a book of Bruce Lee for that matter as it all based on things I like and take interest in.

    So really let me know this great knowledge you have about me or where do you get it from?

    Should i pick you apart I can be very clever here but I'm not as malicious as you but know this I have been watching your posts also since you emphasize this in all your comments towards me in various threads and you do this to others as well.

    Look cut the games young lad who are you kidding, just pull back and enjoy the Forum discussion what ever they are without making this a war that does.t even have thunder to it just stop this nonsense.
     
  13. Martial D

    Martial D Master Black Belt

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    I don't need a crystal ball to spot a pattern of nonsense that extends throughout your entire posting history. If I do recall your very first post here was a bunch of movie fights you were lauding as the real thing..you literally couldn't tell the difference.

    You are right about one thing though, this particular discussion has gone far enough.
     
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  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    Much strawman-ing going on in this.
     
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  15. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Whoa now...why the threats?
     
  16. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    well that's an error with kung fuu, you should included and train it.
    if that is the case, i bet you don't practise head butting people by diving at them with both feet off the ground, like a diving header in soccer, that works as well
     
  17. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    nope I don't practice that either. I guess my kung fu sucks lol.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, I don't train either of those, either. I don't think that's an error. One requires taking yourself off your feet (and is actually pretty easy to avoid, contrary to your statements - I did it all the time in soccer), and the other requires flinging my body head-first at someone, which is not a great strategy, IMO.

    I really hope you were being facetious here, and I just missed it.
     
  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I have seen some flying head buts work. There was a cop here almost killed with one.



    I count it as at least legitimate whether or not I would try it is a different case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  20. webmaster786

    webmaster786 White Belt

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    In the street fight, Kung Fu looks much cooler. But in real life, "MMA" gives you the basics you need to dominate. And, of course, all this depends on your training.
     

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