Kukishin-ryu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by kip42, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Grandmaster

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    Hmm. First off, welcome to the forum.

    Secondly....

    Back on track? This thread has been dead for a year, with the OP (and a few of the participants) no longer having posting access to the forum...

    Not quite. Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken is one of the nine official Ryu-ha taught in a combined form within the Bujinkan (although the make-up of that syllabus comes from a range of different lines, from what I can tell). Kukishinden Ryu (Tenshin Hyoho, the mainline as it were) is not part of the Bujinkan. Other lines, such as the Hontai Kukishin Ryu as found in lines of Takagi Ryu is also not in the Bujinkan. Then you have the other X-Kan lines, with Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken being taught under the name "Kukishin Ryu" in the Jinenkan, and various lines of Kukishin methods within the Genbukan (Tenshin Hyoho Kukishin Ryu, Shinden Tatara Ryu, Kukishin Ryu, Hontai Kukishin Ryu, Kukishinden Ryu, etc), so the Bujinkan isn't the only place to find it. While there are some small and (sometimes) gigantic differences, there is a connection between each of these lines, so stating that the line mentioned in the wiki link "doesn't" relate to the Bujinkan lines is completely incorrect on a huge number of levels. Not least of which is the connection of Takamatsu to the mainline.

    Yeah, I'd argue against that. Firstly, some of the Ryu have only been in contact for the last two generations, so talking about teaching them in "context with each other" shows a lack of understanding from the get go. Togakure, Gyokko, Koto in context with each other? Sure, cool. Gikan, Gyokushin, and Kumogakure ditto, as well as with the aforementioned Ryu. But Takagi, Kukishin with Gyokko etc? Nope.

    That said, I'd be unsure of anyone in the Bujinkan actually teaching any Ryu at all, honestly. And your comments here demonstrate the reason.... they just aren't taught. What is taught is a homogenized form of the various systems in a new martial art called Budo Taijutsu. While that uses the kata of the various Ryu, that is a far step away from actually training, teaching, or studying the Ryu themselves.

    Nope. If you want to learn kata from Kukishinden Ryu Happo Biken as part of Budo Taijutsu, go to a Bujinkan Shihan. If you want to learn Kukishinden Ryu by itself, you're best off going to the Genbukan, getting Sandan, and getting Tanemura Sensei's permission to study it individually.
     
  2. Jigoku

    Jigoku White Belt

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    Having been a member of the Bujinkan for 20 years and resigning from it in 04 as what is called today in the Bujinkan a "Shihan", few years later I had the chance to train with some of the gentlemen featured on the posted Kukishin Ryu....and I got also the chance to clear some questions directly concerning the Kukishin - KukiSHInden Ryu connection....
    Very interesting: getting a view on Bujinkan things from outside the Bujinkan....
    if anybody likes the details I will be glad to share via pm....
    respectfully

    Stefan Marcec, Switzerland123
     

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