I have a question to those that have more experience in the MA's or MMA's. I was wondering what thoughts anyone had on Krav Maga and its application as a self defense. I read a post from a beginning student looking for an art form for self defense because he got beat up pretty good after leaving a night club and it seemed to have scarred himn emotionally as well as physically. When reading some of the responses to his questions noone mentioned Krav Maga as a viable option and I just wondered why? any thoughts?
Krav Maga as self defense option
- Thread starter John Lacy
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Kenpojujitsu3
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Because no one likes Krav Maga! Just Kidding, Just Kidding! Seriously though I'm not sure what your location is but here on my part of the east coast (Maryland, USA) Krav Maga isn't exactly a common name which would explain why few people mention it in terms of self defense. Also some people look at Krav maga and see blatant similiraties with their systems and scream "Rip Off!" On Kenponet.com you can view a thread called "Look familiar" or something to that effect where it shows a video of a Krav Maga headlock defense which is nearly identical to an American Kenpo technique called grip of death. I have a tape series on Krav Maga and from this series it appears to be very simple and direct defense. But it also appears to leave several unecessary openings due to it's simplified nature. That's my opinion but it's limited to viewing the 4 or 5 tapes that I have on Krav Maga and comparing notes with my other experiences. Bottom line, I think Krav Maga works but the fact that it's not widespread is why it isn't mentioned. But, I do know a few who think that it's too simple and leaves too many openings for things to do wrong. Hope this helps.John Lacy said:
Paul Genge
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Probably because none of the people who answered do Krav Maga.
Pauk Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)
Pauk Genge
Russian Martial Arts Northwest (UK)
Any style or system of self-defense is as good as its instructor, I suspect that most people haven't been exposed to a good Krav Maga instructor. When you look at Krav Maga marketing in the US, you will see that you can attend one week classes to become certified as a Krav instructor (see www.kravmaga.com under certification/licensing). That right there sends up big red flags and warning lights, a week doesn't even scratch the surface of training needs to be proficient or even decent at a martial art. I have second-hand reports of very good krav instructors, but given that particular marketing scheme, I'm hard pressed to recommend it to anyone, because the odds are most instructors just aren't that good.
Lamont
Lamont
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
Well I can give you guys an update. Walter Justice had his hours changed at work and I will not be able to attend classes by him due scheudle conflicts. So I went to the Krav Maga Center in here in Kansas City Metro area and will be going there this Monday the 15th of this month for an intro class and give you all a report.
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
Sincerely,
Mark E. Weiser
Flatlander
Grandmaster
Cool. Thanks Mark. :asian:
John Lacy said:
Hi John-
I have some basic knowledge of Krav, so I'll give my thoughts on it. From what I've been exposed to, I was pretty impressed for the most part. Its definately a no nonsense art, quick, simple and to the point! There has been some controversy about the weapon disarms. For someone who wants an effective art that is simple to learn, Krav is the way to go.
Mike
Kenpojujitsu3
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Yep, as long as you don't do the grab the gun barrel/slide and punch him weapon disarms. Those disarms will get someone killed in my unfortunately experienced opinion and thus I label them......MJS said:
But the empty hand stuff works, just leaves holes if your attacker is experienced/seasoned in Martial Arts which doesn't exactly fall under the statistical data of an average mugger. At least not in my area.
Kenpojujitsu3 said:Yep, as long as you don't do the grab the gun barrel/slide and punch him weapon disarms. Those disarms will get someone killed in my unfortunately experienced opinion and thus I label them......
But the empty hand stuff works, just leaves holes if your attacker is experienced/seasoned in Martial Arts which doesn't exactly fall under the statistical data of an average mugger. At least not in my area.
Yes Sir, you're correct on that one!!! Thats the thing that brought some questions to my mind, when I saw the weapon disarms. I've seen better gun disarms and as for the knife...I think I'll stay with the ones from the FMA's.
Mike
- Thread Starter
- #10
Thanks for all the thoughts. I have been training in Krav and truly do like the no nonsense approach.I guess the thing that drew me to Krav is that it sees the other self defense disciplines as an ally. In its insignia the circle is open, the reason is to let the knowledge of the other art forms flow in and out as Krav is an everchanging self defense. However, unless you live in Hollywood I have never seen an assailant walk up to their victim close enough so as to be disarmed. The knife is another story. I would appreciate it if anyone knows of a site to look at, concerning knife defense.
That's also my impression of the bits I've seen.
Could you be mroe specific? Are you looking for ideas on how an art deals with knife defence (http://www.clearsilat.com/silat), or are you looking to elarn knifework online (I'm not aware of any sites with that).
still learning
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Hello, It seems to be growing in populality. Black Belt magazine had a great article on it.
But research others too, in your area and visit as many schools and get the feel of what you really may want to learn from.
Avoidance, Awareness is best choice............fighting back can get you in Jail, hospital, or the morgue.......................Aloha
But research others too, in your area and visit as many schools and get the feel of what you really may want to learn from.
Avoidance, Awareness is best choice............fighting back can get you in Jail, hospital, or the morgue.......................Aloha
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
Looking into the hstory of this MA. They claim to have perfected this Art on the Battlefield of the Middle East with ground troops and in covert operations and security patrols with armed combatants and now it is gaining popularity in Law Enforcement.
Regarding the weapon defense, I think it would be interesting to hear of any success stories with the use of the KM defenses. I'm no gun expert, and I have heard mixed thoughts on the gun defense in regards to grabbing the slide. As for the knife..IMO its key to gain control of the weapon arm ASAP. Control and then work a disarm/defense from there.
Kenpojujitsu3
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There's a whole thread about Kenpo gun defenses and grabbing the slide on this forum that you would probably want to checkout. I don't know how to put the link here yet or i'd do it. Just search for "Kenpo gun techniques" in the kenpo Technical section. Interesting discussion on the whole "grab the slide theory" which is the majority of what I've seen from the Krav Maga gun techniques. From personal experience grabbing the slide is not option number 1.MJS said:
M
Mark Weiser
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Okay here it goes. I attended and watched a Level One Krav Maga Class here in the Overland Park Kansas Area.
The class could have been taught in a more structured format however the basics I seen were good in getting people to understand street/combative situations. How to use max body alignment with the least effort.
At level one the netural stance is both feet in a narrow horse stance with hands open and at chest level. Krav Maga students are taught to block/strike with arms at 90 degree angle with all the body weight forward on your toes when you block giving you reach and momentum for elbow, fist or knee strikes. Not bad from what I saw.
Students are encouraged to go all out when throwing blows and knee strikes with the other student holding protective bags/pads. The instructor is getting them ready for actual fighting which is good.
Also the warm ups were intense with running in a circular pattern around the dojo while doing windmills with alternate arms forward and backwards. Situps at fast pace for 20 - 30 second time frames, push-ups in the same manner.
When the Level two students came back in for the close of class there was not a dry spot on the clothes they were wearing. We all heard them being slammed aganist the walls in the next room. They were working on chokes and wall defenses.
There was about 20 students in each level of classes. The Instructor was very good in detailing why these techniques were to be done
The class could have been taught in a more structured format however the basics I seen were good in getting people to understand street/combative situations. How to use max body alignment with the least effort.
At level one the netural stance is both feet in a narrow horse stance with hands open and at chest level. Krav Maga students are taught to block/strike with arms at 90 degree angle with all the body weight forward on your toes when you block giving you reach and momentum for elbow, fist or knee strikes. Not bad from what I saw.
Students are encouraged to go all out when throwing blows and knee strikes with the other student holding protective bags/pads. The instructor is getting them ready for actual fighting which is good.
Also the warm ups were intense with running in a circular pattern around the dojo while doing windmills with alternate arms forward and backwards. Situps at fast pace for 20 - 30 second time frames, push-ups in the same manner.
When the Level two students came back in for the close of class there was not a dry spot on the clothes they were wearing. We all heard them being slammed aganist the walls in the next room. They were working on chokes and wall defenses.
There was about 20 students in each level of classes. The Instructor was very good in detailing why these techniques were to be done
M
Mark Weiser
Guest
Here is the website for the Training Center
Overland Park KS Krav Maga Training Center
The cost is as follows
Month to Month $110 per Month
6 months $95 Per Month
12 months $90 per month
You will need hand wraps for wrist support for bag work $14
Mouth Piece $14
Groin Protection $15
White Krav Maga Shirt $17
Colored Shirt $25
Also they do automatic payments only
Overland Park KS Krav Maga Training Center
The cost is as follows
Month to Month $110 per Month
6 months $95 Per Month
12 months $90 per month
You will need hand wraps for wrist support for bag work $14
Mouth Piece $14
Groin Protection $15
White Krav Maga Shirt $17
Colored Shirt $25
Also they do automatic payments only
Wow. People really run things differently in America. My mouth piece cost me less than a fifth of that. I guess America is a better place to make money off MAs if you're paying over $90/month. I pay 150 NIS/month and train twice a week. That's rought $33. How many sessions can you attend for what you're paying?Mark Weiser said:
Not exactly true. The style was initially developed for the military. When Imi (the founder) was discharged, he began adjusting it to civilian needs, which is what we learn today. As discussed here, the military don't use it half as much as everyone seems to think they do. It's come a very long way since the 1950's. It's still being perfected. Trust me.Mark Weiser said:
As for everyone who mentioned the whole barrel issue with the handgun defenses, I personally couldn't agree more. Guns have slides today. The techniques have to be changed.
