Kinetic Energy

[Transk53]

As aforementioned, does physical weight have an immediate answer, or with heavier weight in mind, does that ring true? Wondering if physical size actually has a tangible difference. Would it be that no advantage is gained due to there being a natural balance, different skills having there place with your particular self, to kind of nullify the perceived advantage (I.E. body build) over some one that is bigger. A natural balance if you will.

 

[Blindside]

As aforementioned, does physical weight have an immediate answer, or with heavier weight in mind, does that ring true? Wondering if physical size actually has a tangible difference. Would it be that no advantage is gained due to there being a natural balance, different skills having there place with your particular self, to kind of nullify the perceived advantage (I.E. body build) over some one that is bigger. A natural balance if you will.

I am afraid that I have absolutely no idea about what you are asking.

 

[Dinkydoo]

I think he's asking if having more mass (e.g. a larger arm) combined with correct body mechanics would equate to a stronger punch when compared with a smaller arm.

Kinetic Energy is: 1/2 mass x velocity ^ 2

Therefore mass will make a difference, but with velocity being squared, speed is much more important. With speed being equal then mass will make a big difference.

A smaller person punching with correct body mechanics should be able to hit with more power in thier punch than a fat guy with crap technique - massive generalisation here, I know. Assuming the smaller person is an adult and that they have a relatively strong build (which if they are training seriously for any length of time, they probably should do)

 

[Tez3]

In one of my Wado Ryu books by Shingo Ohgami, he has some amazing mathematical type things, I can only describe them as things as I have no idea what they actually are. there's equations to do with the power and speed of strikes.


"the moment of Tsukiwaza is M1=F1 x a and in Uchiwaza M2=F2 x (a+b)" with a lovely little diagram I cannot reproduce here. I understand that in his other, non martial arts life he is an engineer so can explain karate in terms like this. It's impressive to me at any rate!

 

[Transk53]

I am afraid that I have absolutely no idea about what you are asking.

Me too obviously!

 

[Transk53]

I think he's asking if having more mass (e.g. a larger arm) combined with correct body mechanics would equate to a stronger punch when compared with a smaller arm.

Kinetic Energy is: 1/2 mass x velocity ^ 2

Therefore mass will make a difference, but with velocity being squared, speed is much more important. With speed being equal then mass will make a big difference.

A smaller person punching with correct body mechanics should be able to hit with more power in thier punch than a fat guy with crap technique - massive generalisation here, I know. Assuming the smaller person is an adult and that they have a relatively strong build (which if they are training seriously for any length of time, they probably should do)

No. My intent was fundamentals against equilibrium.

 

[Dinkydoo]

No. My intent was fundamentals against equilibrium.

and you named the thread "Kinetic Energy"?

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at (maybe I'm not best placed to answer) but there will be a lot of trade-offs between a much larger fighter against a smaller, more skilled and fitter fighter. I personally don't fancy eating kicks and punches from a 6'5 beginner but being a few years more experienced I'd be confident of being able to get inside without taking too much damage and work from there. There will be similar tradeoffs between an unfit guy with some fundamentals against a fitter opponent who is a complete beginner - although my money would be on the person with a bit of training under thier belt.

It all depends on what we're talking about though. Real street fighting, kickboxing continuous rules, MMA rules....

I might be missing the point youre trying to make entirely!

Edit: I think I understand what you're getting at now - with everything else being equal does having more balance to your body build makeup for being disadvantaged at being the smaller fighter.... If thats what you're getting at then I'm not sure, you'd need to consider a lot of different factors (some of which I've touched upon).

 

[Transk53]

and you named the thread "Kinetic Energy"?

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at (maybe I'm not best placed to answer) but there will be a lot of trade-offs between a much larger fighter against a smaller, more skilled and fitter fighter. I personally don't fancy eating kicks and punches from a 6'5 beginner but being a few years more experienced I'd be confident of being able to get inside without taking too much damage and work from there. There will be similar tradeoffs between an unfit guy with some fundamentals against a fitter opponent who is a complete beginner - although my money would be on the person with a bit of training under thier belt.

It all depends on what we're talking about though. Real street fighting, kickboxing continuous rules, MMA rules....

I might be missing the point youre trying to make entirely!

Edit: I think I understand what you're getting at now - with everything else being equal does having more balance to your body build makeup for being disadvantaged at being the smaller fighter.... If thats what you're getting at then I'm not sure, you'd need to consider a lot of different factors (some of which I've touched upon).

Yeah I suppose that does kind of answer it. What I am getting at I guess the best way to convey it would be harmony. Irrespective of build (that was a good point BTW) there has to be a point where someone goes beyond the point of real time perception. Drawing upon themselves to see the current environment as well. Thus the mastery of energy in this sense then, take it, then use it. Sorry if that is confusing, but the scene in The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise taking out the baddies, but then you saw what he saw in a replay. I will hunt for some linkage.

 

[Transk53]

This

 

[Blindside]

Yeah I suppose that does kind of answer it. What I am getting at I guess the best way to convey it would be harmony. Irrespective of build (that was a good point BTW) there has to be a point where someone goes beyond the point of real time perception. Drawing upon themselves to see the current environment as well. Thus the mastery of energy in this sense then, take it, then use it. Sorry if that is confusing, but the scene in The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise taking out the baddies, but then you saw what he saw in a replay. I will hunt for some linkage.

I would consider that having a high level of ability to read intent and then joining that with your ability to counter it. I have done a couple of things in sparring that would be considered a "perfect counter" and looked pretty cool, but really weren't conscious on my part. That doesn't happen very often, but that is essentially what you are talking about being done at a high level and presumably regularly. The aiki arts are probably one of the arts that are most known for trying to exemplify this type of understanding, but I really thing that is the high level goal of every martial art.

 

[Transk53]

I would consider that having a high level of ability to read intent and then joining that with your ability to counter it. I have done a couple of things in sparring that would be considered a "perfect counter" and looked pretty cool, but really weren't conscious on my part. That doesn't happen very often, but that is essentially what you are talking about being done at a high level and presumably regularly. The aiki arts are probably one of the arts that are most known for trying to exemplify this type of understanding, but I really thing that is the high level goal of every martial art.

MA, yes but no. Life force.

 

[Dinkydoo]

Predicting how your opponent behaves is creeping more and more into my sparring but most of the time it isn't really happening at a conscious level - I believe its a combination of being more experienced at sparring than I was before and muscle memory.

Consciously I can do this through using feints and certain patterns when sparring, but I become predictable myself in doing this.

Trying to predict how someone might move over and over and over whilst having an awareness of your surroundings all within the blink of an eye seems a bit like fantasy martial arts to me.

 

[Blindside]

MA, yes but no. Life force.

You mean that there is an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds us and penetrates us? And that high level martial artists are able to read this energy field? Maybe manipulate it?

 

[Transk53]

You mean that there is an energy field created by all living things, that surrounds us and penetrates us? And that high level martial artists are able to read this energy field? Maybe manipulate it?

Maybe a higher connection to the senses is possible. Perhaps there is something unknown out there.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

Predicting how your opponent behaves is creeping more and more into my sparring but most of the time it isn't really happening at a conscious level - I believe its a combination of being more experienced at sparring than I was before and muscle memory.

Consciously I can do this through using feints and certain patterns when sparring, but I become predictable myself in doing this.

Trying to predict how someone might move over and over and over whilst having an awareness of your surroundings all within the blink of an eye seems a bit like fantasy martial arts to me.

I remember reading something that Bruce Lee said once about how some of his most difficult fights were against people who had no training. I think he attributed this to the fact that he would move to a place to get them throw what he considered the logical next attack, and they would throw some ******* crazy attack that didn't make sense.
Maybe it's less about predicting what your opponent is going to do, and more about moving to positions while sparring that limit the attacks that they're able to do quickly. Hope you can envision what I'm saying here.
I think this is what Bruce Lee was talking about. Moving to where he believed only a few attacks would make sense, and then receiving something completely different.

This happens in class when you're trying to explain a technique and an inexperienced uke reacts "strangely" or throws an attack that you wouldn't have thought "made sense".

Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the OP's questions

 

[jezr74]

I remember reading something that Bruce Lee said once about how some of his most difficult fights were against people who had no training. I think he attributed this to the fact that he would move to a place to get them throw what he considered the logical next attack, and they would throw some ******* crazy attack that didn't make sense.
Maybe it's less about predicting what your opponent is going to do, and more about moving to positions while sparring that limit the attacks that they're able to do quickly. Hope you can envision what I'm saying here.
I think this is what Bruce Lee was talking about. Moving to where he believed only a few attacks would make sense, and then receiving something completely different.

This happens in class when you're trying to explain a technique and an inexperienced uke reacts "strangely" or throws an attack that you wouldn't have thought "made sense".

Disclaimer: This has nothing to do with the OP's questions

Kind of how you can be beaten time and time again by a button basher in Tekkan.

 

[drop bear]

Go find a weight vest and spar with it. See what happens.

 

[Blindside]

Weight vest don't hit back.

 

[drop bear]

Weight vest don't hit back.

It does if you are wearing one.

 

[Transk53]

As humans we use very little of our brain capacity. It has to be possible that unused space can be tapped. At some point in human evolution this will be used, why because we know it is there. Some people call it ESP to just explain that some crazy person can see beyond, or feel beyond. The weight vest is what it is and it cannot hit back, it needs the wearer. Same thing could be applied to the senses. Suppose that most would term as being in the zone, so many permutations on that.