Kettebells for strength

[jobo]

WHAT? This is so wrong on so many levels. Lifts like the squat and deadlift will train the WHOLE BODY done correctly to stabilize all of the joints etc. for the lift. I'm not sure where you get a weak lower back from using proper form in a deadlift. There are variations of the deadlift that will strengthen the lower back while still using good form. You are arguing non-sense

Re-read my post, I said that the squat and deadlifts when done correctly will train the whole body TO STABILIZE ALL OF THE JOINTS, I did NOT say train all of the muscles. If I was talking just working muscles, the squat, deadlift, bench and military press would hit all of your muscles.

You still have NOT countered my point with actual reasons, you just say that I'm wrong and then change around what was said. It's not rude to point out a truthful fact. I would say that about anyone that claims to teach others on something that will get you hurt and is based on faulty premises in training.

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well that's wasnt at all clear, you definitely said " train the whole body, and that has to include the WHOLE BODY by definition. ,if 8t doesn't then why even say " wholebody" in the first place, but then its doesn't work / stabilise all the joints either, so your still wrong,

maybe when you've decided what it does and doesn't do, we can have a sensible discussion about all the other things your wrong about

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well that's wasnt at all clear, you definitely said " train the whole body, and that has to include the WHOLE BODY by definition. ,if 8t doesn't then why even say " wholebody" in the first place, but then its doesn't work / stabilise all the joints either, so your still wrong,

maybe when you've decided what it does and doesn't do, we can have a sensible discussion about all the other things your wrong about

Maybe try reading for intent, rather than nit-picking.

 

[punisher73]

well that's wasnt at all clear, you definitely said " train the whole body, and that has to include the WHOLE BODY by definition. ,if 8t doesn't then why even say " wholebody" in the first place, but then its doesn't work / stabilise all the joints either, so your still wrong,

maybe when you've decided what it does and doesn't do, we can have a sensible discussion about all the other things your wrong about

Here is my exact quote, it was VERY specific.

Lifts like the squat and deadlift will train the WHOLE BODY when done correctly to stabilize all of the joints etc. for the lift.

See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

I agree with gpseymour. I am not going to waste anymore time on this when you miss the whole intent of what someone says.

 

[jobo]

Re-read my post, I said that the squat and deadlifts when done correctly will train the whole body TO STABILIZE ALL OF THE JOINTS, I did NOT say train all of the muscles. If I was talking just working muscles, the squat, deadlift, bench and military press would hit all of your muscles.

You still have NOT countered my point with actual reasons, you just say that I'm wrong and then change around what was said. It's not rude to point out a truthful fact. I would say that about anyone that claims to teach others on something that will get you hurt and is based on faulty premises in training.

and here is your last quote, the part you have capitalised is very clear, your claiming it stabilises ALL of the joints.

 

[punisher73]

and here is your last quote, the part you have capitalised is very clear, your claiming it stabilises ALL of the joints.

Name a joint not stabilized in those two lifts...BTW, we are talking about the bone to bone with functional movement medical definition and NOT the medical debate of what constitutes a joint, which if that is the case even doctors define it differently and come up with different numbers based on their definition. So, yes, if you want to nitpick beyond the logical parameters of what we are really trying to talk about the squat/deadlift to NOT work the joints. Then we can say that the cranial sutures (skull plates coming together) definition or the 20 joints in your ear that some classify would not be worked. I will concede that.

 

[jobo]

Name a joint not stabilized in those two lifts...BTW, we are talking about the bone to bone with functional movement medical definition and NOT the medical debate of what constitutes a joint, which if that is the case even doctors define it differently and come up with different numbers based on their definition. So, yes, if you want to nitpick beyond the logical parameters of what we are really trying to talk about the squat/deadlift to NOT work the joints. Then we can say that the cranial sutures (skull plates coming together) definition or the 20 joints in your ear that some classify would not be worked. I will concede that.

two lifts, you said each stabilised all joints,

8m not doing your job for you, there are 360 joints in the human body not including the ear or 5he scull and your claim was that a sqaut or a dead lift stabilised every one , now either that, as unlikely as it seems is correct and you can evidence that or more likely its a complete and utter fabrication. I'm waiting ,,,!

 

[punisher73]

two lifts, you said each stabilised all joints,

8m not doing your job for you, there are 360 joints in the human body not including the ear or 5he scull and your claim was that a sqaut or a dead lift stabilised every one , now either that, as unlikely as it seems is correct and you can evidence that or more likely its a complete and utter fabrication. I'm waiting ,,,!

What you mean to say is that you can't support your position, so you want the other person to write something and then look for something to disagree with. It was your claim that the lifts don't stabilize the joints of the body, therefore it is up to you to back it up by providing an example of one. I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints.

 

[jobo]

What you mean to say is that you can't support your position, so you want the other person to write something and then look for something to disagree with. It was your claim that the lifts don't stabilize the joints of the body, therefore it is up to you to back it up by providing an example of one. I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints.

no it wasn5, I didn't mention joints at all, you brought that up.

your now trying to move your claim to " main joints" when you clearly said " all joints "

and wheres is this " list of main joints" of which you speak ?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

two lifts, you said each stabilised all joints,

8m not doing your job for you, there are 360 joints in the human body not including the ear or 5he scull and your claim was that a sqaut or a dead lift stabilised every one , now either that, as unlikely as it seems is correct and you can evidence that or more likely its a complete and utter fabrication. I'm waiting ,,,!

So, you're concerned that the jaw joint isn't stabilized?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

no it wasn5, I didn't mention joints at all, you brought that up.

your now trying to move your claim to " main joints" when you clearly said " all joints "

and wheres is this " list of main joints" of which you speak ?

Maybe try reading to understand, rather than reading for the purpose of disagreeing. If you're only planning to disagree, why bother to read, at all?

 

[jobo]

Maybe try reading to understand, rather than reading for the purpose of disagreeing. If you're only planning to disagree, why bother to read, at all?

but he started this discurse on dead lifts by disagreeing with me. perhaps you should suggest this reading to understand thing to both sides, or even deal with the personal insults he was throwing about earlier in the thread, it's rather one sided " policing " that goes on here

 

[punisher73]

no it wasn5, I didn't mention joints at all, you brought that up.

your now trying to move your claim to " main joints" when you clearly said " all joints "

and wheres is this " list of main joints" of which you speak ?

no it wasn5, I didn't mention joints at all, you brought that up.

your now trying to move your claim to " main joints" when you clearly said " all joints "

and wheres is this " list of main joints" of which you speak ?

I still stand by the claim of "all joints" and I have defined that for you so we would be on the same page and admitted under certain definitions of a "joint" being just bone to bone it wouldn't stabilize them, and gave the example of the human skull plates or the joints in the ear.

Also, I never moved my claim to "main joints" only RE-READ THE POSTS!!! Here are the exact quotes:

Here was the first quote "with the list"

See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

Here was your chance to name a joint, major or otherwise to prove your claim and disprove mine. You never named one.

Here is the second quote:

I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints

You are still making the claim it doesn't hit all of the joints and you were asked to name the joint that wasn't. You still have not done so. You still HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. Now you are arguing of my use of the word "major joints". It was directed TO YOU to answer with an example, I gave you a starting point for a list of joints, not an exhaustive list, it is now up to you to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

What joints are NOT stabilized through the squat/deadlift when done correctly?[/QUOTE]

 

[punisher73]

but he started this discurse on dead lifts by disagreeing with me. perhaps you should suggest this reading to understand thing to both sides, or even deal with the personal insults he was throwing about earlier in the thread, it's rather one sided " policing " that goes on here

Please quote me where I made a personal insult....

I have not called you any names or made any reference to you as a person.

 

[jobo]

I still stand by the claim of "all joints" and I have defined that for you so we would be on the same page and admitted under certain definitions of a "joint" being just bone to bone it wouldn't stabilize them, and gave the example of the human skull plates or the joints in the ear.

Also, I never moved my claim to "main joints" only RE-READ THE POSTS!!! Here are the exact quotes:

Here was the first quote "with the list"

See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

Here was your chance to name a joint, major or otherwise to prove your claim and disprove mine. You never named one.

Here is the second quote:

I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints

You are still making the claim it doesn't hit all of the joints and you were asked to name the joint that wasn't. You still have not done so. You still HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. Now you are arguing of my use of the word "major joints". It was directed TO YOU to answer with an example, I gave you a starting point for a list of joints, not an exhaustive list, it is now up to you to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

What joints are NOT stabilized through the squat/deadlift when done correctly?

[/QUOTE]
I haven't made a claim about joints, you have so just be clear your sticking by your claim that the squat stabilises all 360 joints or your sticking by the claim you didn't make that it stabilises major joints, of which you've managed after racking your brain to name 6 , a number of which arnt joints , but rather a collection of joints that you have lumped together , the knee for instance is two joints, nether of which is called the knee joint.

it makes it impossible to know what your claiming when your using primary school biology

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but he started this discurse on dead lifts by disagreeing with me. perhaps you should suggest this reading to understand thing to both sides, or even deal with the personal insults he was throwing about earlier in the thread, it's rather one sided " policing " that goes on here

He disagreed with an actual point you made - and one where if we went by your actual words you were wrong (but you later clarified what you actually meant).

You're CHOOSING to read for the purpose of disagreement, though you're perfectly capable of understanding his point. You've acted like you don't understand, because you like arguing. But I'm certain you are smart enough to understand the point.

 

[punisher73]

I haven't made a claim about joints, you have so just be clear your sticking by your claim that the squat stabilises all 360 joints or your sticking by the claim you didn't make that it stabilises major joints, of which you've managed after racking your brain to name 6 , a number of which arnt joints , but rather a collection of joints that you have lumped together , the knee for instance is two joints, nether of which is called the knee joint.

it makes it impossible to know what your claiming when your using primary school biology[/QUOTE]

Once again....no answer.

Nope not impossible to know if you actually read something.

BTW, we are talking about the bone to bone with functional movement medical definition and NOT the medical debate of what constitutes a joint, which if that is the case even doctors define it differently and come up with different numbers based on their definition.

Really, "primary school biology"? Accepted term, even by medical doctors, is to say the "knee joint" when referring to that structure. You are really desperate to not admit that you were wrong on this.Once again, you can't answer the question and try to nitpick something instead of answering it.

I'm STILL waiting for an answer....come on now, name JUST ONE instead of trying to find little loopholes to get out of your position.

The burden of proof is on you now. Anymore attempts to nitpick and argue minor terms will be ignored. You know what the premise was, now name a joint. ANY joint, I even requoted the working definition for you above so there wouldn't be a mistake about what I am asking.

 

[jobo]

I haven't made a claim about joints, you have so just be clear your sticking by your claim that the squat stabilises all 360 joints or your sticking by the claim you didn't make that it stabilises major joints, of which you've managed after racking your brain to name 6 , a number of which arnt joints , but rather a collection of joints that you have lumped together , the knee for instance is two joints, nether of which is called the knee joint.

it makes it impossible to know what your claiming when your using primary school biology

Once again....no answer.

Nope not impossible to know if you actually read something.



Really, "primary school biology"? Accepted term, even by medical doctors, is to say the "knee joint" when referring to that structure. You are really desperate to not admit that you were wrong on this.Once again, you can't answer the question and try to nitpick something instead of answering it.

I'm STILL waiting for an answer....come on now, name JUST ONE instead of trying to find little loopholes to get out of your position.

The burden of proof is on you now. Anymore attempts to nitpick and argue minor terms will be ignored. You know what the premise was, now name a joint. ANY joint, I even requoted the working definition for you above so there wouldn't be a mistake about what I am asking.[/QUOTE]
I'd love to see some evidence that's doctors commonly referred to it as the knee joint, show me a scientific paper were is so. is this an appeal to authority , if so let's see your authority!

I've made no claim and so have no burden of proof, .

8m still waiting for you to show 5hat a sqaut stabilises all joints, a claim that you actually made. trying to shift the burden of proof to me wont cover up your foolishness.

 

[punisher73]

I'd love to see some evidence that's doctors commonly referred to it as the knee joint, show me a scientific paper were is so. is this an appeal to authority , if so let's see your authority!

I've made no claim and so have no burden of proof, .

8m still waiting for you to show 5hat a sqaut stabilises all joints, a claim that you actually made. trying to shift the burden of proof to me wont cover up your foolishness.[/QUOTE]

Typed in "medical paper knee joint", these popped up right at the top of google
Definition of Knee joint (medical definition of "knee joint")
A Paper on DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF COMMON INJURIES OF THE KNEE JOINT (Diagnosis and Treatment of Common Injuries of the Knee Joint)
Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries. - PubMed - NCBI (Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries)

You were given a definition and list of the joints that the squat and deadlift stabilize. You say "no" they don't, therefore the burden is on you to point out what they don't work with. I have already shown that they do, you disagree with that statement, in a debate it now shifts to you to provide an example of a joint that is not involved in one of those two lifts.

Still waiting, last chance to prove me wrong. I am officially done debating unless you name one of those joints, because at this point the burden of proof IS on you.

 

[jobo]

I'd love to see some evidence that's doctors commonly referred to it as the knee joint, show me a scientific paper were is so. is this an appeal to authority , if so let's see your authority!

I've made no claim and so have no burden of proof, .

8m still waiting for you to show 5hat a sqaut stabilises all joints, a claim that you actually made. trying to shift the burden of proof to me wont cover up your foolishness.

Typed in "medical paper knee joint", these popped up right at the top of google
Definition of Knee joint (medical definition of "knee joint")
A Paper on DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF COMMON INJURIES OF THE KNEE JOINT (Diagnosis and Treatment of Common Injuries of the Knee Joint)
Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries. - PubMed - NCBI (Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries)

You were given a definition and list of the joints that the squat and deadlift stabilize. You say "no" they don't, therefore the burden is on you to point out what they don't work with. I have already shown that they do, you disagree with that statement, in a debate it now shifts to you to provide an example of a joint that is not involved in one of those two lifts.

Still waiting, last chance to prove me wrong. I am officially done debating unless you name one of those joints, because at this point the burden of proof IS on you.[/QUOTE] no you have to prove your statement, that the general rule in such things. no one is ever required to prove a negative

 

[Buka]

I still stand by the claim of "all joints" and I have defined that for you so we would be on the same page and admitted under certain definitions of a "joint" being just bone to bone it wouldn't stabilize them, and gave the example of the human skull plates or the joints in the ear.

Also, I never moved my claim to "main joints" only RE-READ THE POSTS!!! Here are the exact quotes:

Here was the first quote "with the list"

See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

Here was your chance to name a joint, major or otherwise to prove your claim and disprove mine. You never named one.

Here is the second quote:

I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints

You are still making the claim it doesn't hit all of the joints and you were asked to name the joint that wasn't. You still have not done so. You still HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. Now you are arguing of my use of the word "major joints". It was directed TO YOU to answer with an example, I gave you a starting point for a list of joints, not an exhaustive list, it is now up to you to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

What joints are NOT stabilized through the squat/deadlift when done correctly?

[/QUOTE]