Kettebells for strength

Discussion in 'Grappling / Brazilian Ju Jitsu / Wrestling' started by Glenn67, Mar 21, 2019.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well that's wasnt at all clear, you definitely said " train the whole body, and that has to include the WHOLE BODY by definition. ,if 8t doesn't then why even say " wholebody" in the first place, but then its doesn't work / stabilise all the joints either, so your still wrong,

    maybe when you've decided what it does and doesn't do, we can have a sensible discussion about all the other things your wrong about
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2019
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe try reading for intent, rather than nit-picking.
     
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  3. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Here is my exact quote, it was VERY specific.

    See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

    I agree with gpseymour. I am not going to waste anymore time on this when you miss the whole intent of what someone says.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    and here is your last quote, the part you have capitalised is very clear, your claiming it stabilises ALL of the joints.
     
  5. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Name a joint not stabilized in those two lifts...BTW, we are talking about the bone to bone with functional movement medical definition and NOT the medical debate of what constitutes a joint, which if that is the case even doctors define it differently and come up with different numbers based on their definition. So, yes, if you want to nitpick beyond the logical parameters of what we are really trying to talk about the squat/deadlift to NOT work the joints. Then we can say that the cranial sutures (skull plates coming together) definition or the 20 joints in your ear that some classify would not be worked. I will concede that.
     
  6. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    two lifts, you said each stabilised all joints,

    8m not doing your job for you, there are 360 joints in the human body not including the ear or 5he scull and your claim was that a sqaut or a dead lift stabilised every one , now either that, as unlikely as it seems is correct and you can evidence that or more likely its a complete and utter fabrication. I'm waiting ,,,!
     
  7. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    What you mean to say is that you can't support your position, so you want the other person to write something and then look for something to disagree with. It was your claim that the lifts don't stabilize the joints of the body, therefore it is up to you to back it up by providing an example of one. I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints.
     
  8. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no it wasn5, I didn't mention joints at all, you brought that up.

    your now trying to move your claim to " main joints" when you clearly said " all joints "

    and wheres is this " list of main joints" of which you speak ?
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    So, you're concerned that the jaw joint isn't stabilized?
     
  10. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Maybe try reading to understand, rather than reading for the purpose of disagreeing. If you're only planning to disagree, why bother to read, at all?
     
  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    but he started this discurse on dead lifts by disagreeing with me. perhaps you should suggest this reading to understand thing to both sides, or even deal with the personal insults he was throwing about earlier in the thread, it's rather one sided " policing " that goes on here
     
  12. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I still stand by the claim of "all joints" and I have defined that for you so we would be on the same page and admitted under certain definitions of a "joint" being just bone to bone it wouldn't stabilize them, and gave the example of the human skull plates or the joints in the ear.

    Also, I never moved my claim to "main joints" only RE-READ THE POSTS!!! Here are the exact quotes:

    Here was the first quote "with the list"

    See if I am missing any of the major joints that work in those lifts to stabilize the body: ankles, knees, hips, wrists, elbows and shoulders.

    Here was your chance to name a joint, major or otherwise to prove your claim and disprove mine. You never named one.

    Here is the second quote:

    I already listed the main joints people associate with those lifts, not even getting into the trunk/core support of those lifts that take care of the spinal joints

    You are still making the claim it doesn't hit all of the joints and you were asked to name the joint that wasn't. You still have not done so. You still HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION. Now you are arguing of my use of the word "major joints". It was directed TO YOU to answer with an example, I gave you a starting point for a list of joints, not an exhaustive list, it is now up to you to ANSWER THE QUESTION.

    What joints are NOT stabilized through the squat/deadlift when done correctly?[/QUOTE]
     
  13. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Please quote me where I made a personal insult....

    I have not called you any names or made any reference to you as a person.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    [/QUOTE]
    I haven't made a claim about joints, you have so just be clear your sticking by your claim that the squat stabilises all 360 joints or your sticking by the claim you didn't make that it stabilises major joints, of which you've managed after racking your brain to name 6 , a number of which arnt joints , but rather a collection of joints that you have lumped together , the knee for instance is two joints, nether of which is called the knee joint.

    it makes it impossible to know what your claiming when your using primary school biology
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    He disagreed with an actual point you made - and one where if we went by your actual words you were wrong (but you later clarified what you actually meant).

    You're CHOOSING to read for the purpose of disagreement, though you're perfectly capable of understanding his point. You've acted like you don't understand, because you like arguing. But I'm certain you are smart enough to understand the point.
     
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  16. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I haven't made a claim about joints, you have so just be clear your sticking by your claim that the squat stabilises all 360 joints or your sticking by the claim you didn't make that it stabilises major joints, of which you've managed after racking your brain to name 6 , a number of which arnt joints , but rather a collection of joints that you have lumped together , the knee for instance is two joints, nether of which is called the knee joint.

    it makes it impossible to know what your claiming when your using primary school biology[/QUOTE]

    Once again....no answer.

    Nope not impossible to know if you actually read something.

    Really, "primary school biology"? Accepted term, even by medical doctors, is to say the "knee joint" when referring to that structure. You are really desperate to not admit that you were wrong on this.Once again, you can't answer the question and try to nitpick something instead of answering it.

    I'm STILL waiting for an answer....come on now, name JUST ONE instead of trying to find little loopholes to get out of your position.

    The burden of proof is on you now. Anymore attempts to nitpick and argue minor terms will be ignored. You know what the premise was, now name a joint. ANY joint, I even requoted the working definition for you above so there wouldn't be a mistake about what I am asking.
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Once again....no answer.

    Nope not impossible to know if you actually read something.



    Really, "primary school biology"? Accepted term, even by medical doctors, is to say the "knee joint" when referring to that structure. You are really desperate to not admit that you were wrong on this.Once again, you can't answer the question and try to nitpick something instead of answering it.

    I'm STILL waiting for an answer....come on now, name JUST ONE instead of trying to find little loopholes to get out of your position.

    The burden of proof is on you now. Anymore attempts to nitpick and argue minor terms will be ignored. You know what the premise was, now name a joint. ANY joint, I even requoted the working definition for you above so there wouldn't be a mistake about what I am asking.[/QUOTE]
    I'd love to see some evidence that's doctors commonly referred to it as the knee joint, show me a scientific paper were is so. is this an appeal to authority , if so let's see your authority!

    I've made no claim and so have no burden of proof, .

    8m still waiting for you to show 5hat a sqaut stabilises all joints, a claim that you actually made. trying to shift the burden of proof to me wont cover up your foolishness.
     
  18. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    I'd love to see some evidence that's doctors commonly referred to it as the knee joint, show me a scientific paper were is so. is this an appeal to authority , if so let's see your authority!

    I've made no claim and so have no burden of proof, .

    8m still waiting for you to show 5hat a sqaut stabilises all joints, a claim that you actually made. trying to shift the burden of proof to me wont cover up your foolishness.[/QUOTE]

    Typed in "medical paper knee joint", these popped up right at the top of google
    Definition of Knee joint (medical definition of "knee joint")
    A Paper on DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF COMMON INJURIES OF THE KNEE JOINT (Diagnosis and Treatment of Common Injuries of the Knee Joint)
    Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries. - PubMed - NCBI (Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries)

    You were given a definition and list of the joints that the squat and deadlift stabilize. You say "no" they don't, therefore the burden is on you to point out what they don't work with. I have already shown that they do, you disagree with that statement, in a debate it now shifts to you to provide an example of a joint that is not involved in one of those two lifts.

    Still waiting, last chance to prove me wrong. I am officially done debating unless you name one of those joints, because at this point the burden of proof IS on you.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    Typed in "medical paper knee joint", these popped up right at the top of google
    Definition of Knee joint (medical definition of "knee joint")
    A Paper on DIAGNOSIS AND TREATMENT OF COMMON INJURIES OF THE KNEE JOINT (Diagnosis and Treatment of Common Injuries of the Knee Joint)
    Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries. - PubMed - NCBI (Arthroscopic versus open debridement of penetrating knee joint injuries)

    You were given a definition and list of the joints that the squat and deadlift stabilize. You say "no" they don't, therefore the burden is on you to point out what they don't work with. I have already shown that they do, you disagree with that statement, in a debate it now shifts to you to provide an example of a joint that is not involved in one of those two lifts.

    Still waiting, last chance to prove me wrong. I am officially done debating unless you name one of those joints, because at this point the burden of proof IS on you.[/QUOTE] no you have to prove your statement, that the general rule in such things. no one is ever required to prove a negative
     
  20. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    [/QUOTE]
    TalkToWall.png
     
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