Karate Connection - IKCA

[Rob_Broad]

Just wondering what the members here thinkof the IKCA program. I know it is only 55 techniques long, and it has a small beginner form and what it calls the master form. I know that you either test in a sanctioned school, or thru video. If you test by video they send you backa tape with a private lesson to correct your mistakes.

But what does all the members think of the organization and the concept of what they are doing.

 

[Jay Bell]

Hi Rob,

Check your PM's

Take care,

Jay

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Never heard of it. Is there a link?

:asian:

 

[Rob_Broad]

You can check out their program at:

http://www.karateconnection.com

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Very interesting....

Very interesting indeed....

 

[arnisador]

I do like one thing they say--asking how long it takes to get a black belt is like asking how long it takes to learn how to play the violin.

Still, with a mail order program, one must wonder if that is the practice as well.

I am not a kenpo person--could someone explain to me the significance of using (only) 55 techniques? Is that 55 punches, kicks, and blocks, or 55 combinations of such? How many are in a typical kenpo curriculum?

 

[Rob_Broad]

The regular American Kenpo system uses 154 Self Defense techniques,14 sets, and 10/11 forms. The IKCA system is using 55 self defense techniques and one little form then the master form which gets added to each belt level.

A self defense techniques a pre-arranged series of basic to defend against a set attack.

In American Kenpo the techniques are not the end all to be all, they are a tool to help you learn the principles and rules of motion. They also teach you the mechanics of motion, and many other lessons.

Jay Bell has a better grasp of the IKCA program than I do. I have not taken the IKCA program, and have no vested interest other than I know a few people who are current members.

 

[Jay Bell]

The "55 techniques" is put together into something called the "Master Form" *chuckle*

It's broken down at each belt you learn a handfull of self-defense techniques...which are labeled, "Orange Belt 1, Orange Belt 2" and so on. You do these "self-defense" techniques in succession, creating one big kata out of them.

Example -- Orange 1

Opponent punches -- left. Defender does an inside block (right) while moving to the side of the opponent. The right arm guides the punching arm into the hand of the left and does a backfist to the floating ribs. The same hand (once opponent is bent over) draws back high and does a sword hand strike to C-3.

Damn...I still remember that garbage!

 

[Rob_Broad]

Don't hold anything back Jat Bell, forums like this are to keep us informed about what really goes on out there. If you have some gripes, and qualms about their program please share.

 

[Jay Bell]

I'll pass on the offer honestly....there's a lot of legality issues that could come of it.

In my opinion though, IKCA is nothing more then a business venture to line the pockets of the founders. It is by far the most in-effective art that I have ever been involved with. If they concentrated more on training instead of creating an video black belt empire, that may not be the case.

 

[Rob_Broad]

I understand and respect your wish to discuss it no further. I hope it hasn't soured the martial arts for you.

 

[Jay Bell]

Honestly, after that situation I did think about leaving training...but it was many years ago and I started training in other arts a few months later.

 

[GouRonin]

C'mon. It can't be worse than the TKD'ers!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by GouRonin
C'mon. It can't be worse than the TKD'ers!

In fairness, many will admit that this is generally taught as a martial sport. In that sense they are not being hypocritical.

 

[Cthulhu]

Originally posted by GouRonin
C'mon. It can't be worse than the TKD'ers!

Once again, Gou, I trump you with CMD/Q

Cthulhu

 

[GouRonin]

Alright. You win.
...this time...

As for sport TKD...well...when people tell me that TKD is the killing art of the 21st century...I laugh a lot.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Is anything as bad as WTF-TKD or CMQ. Like I said before I am just looking for more information on this system of Kenpo. I know a few people who hold belts in it and as a friend I would like to see them learning something that is reputable.

 

[warriorsage]

Well it seems obvious Jay Bell had a very bad experience and that is too bad. But my experience has been pretty positive and moved me light years ahead of where my previous, traditional training had me. To each his own I guess.

My main problem with Mr. Bell's opinion is that he seems to think their program is a scam to make money and that the program itself is a joke. I've been directly involved w/ a few different arts, as well as a couple of different kenpo disciplines and I learned quite a bit from the IKCA. And anyone who has ever been a part of the program knows that they don't just take your money and hand you a belt. You get quite a bit of feedback for your money. They wouldn't do nearly as much for the student if all they were chasing is the almighty buck. Also, they may not teach as much quantity of kenpo as you'd like, but what they teach is extremely similar to what is taught in American Kenpo. So if you think that American Kenpo is a joke, then maybe your argument is valid. But if you are a fan of American Kenpo, then you'll be learning a very comparable, albeit leaner, version of that art. I also don't really understand your problem with the orange belt material. I get the fact that you think it sucks, but why? What specifically did you think was ineffective about the first technique in the sequence? Or is it that you have a problem with the practice of techniques in general? Also, I'd like to know what legalities prevent you from discussing the IKCA in public. Could you maybe email me with some particulars?

As far Rob's question, the system actually has quite a bit of material, just not when compared to an American Kenpo or Tracy's school. The amount of basics, techniques and form(s) was much more than my former TKD or TSD schools. Well, maybe not when you consider the 15 variations for each type of kick, but still...most tradtional arts or hard style arts that I've seen don't have any katas that come close to the length that the Master Form has. The master form is longer than any of the American Kenpo empty hand forms, but I admit it is the only Long form in the system. The Orange belt form is a different take on short 1. It doesn't teach all that short 1 teaches, but teaches many similar themes, at least on a basic level.

I found that while I love what the IKCA taught (and still teaches) me, I have a thirst for more sophisticated material and therefore sought out American Kenpo instructors to help take me to where I want to go. I know Rob isn't really considering the program, due to his existing knowledge base and level of skill, but for me it was a great intro into kenpo and for many others it may be as well. And for those that have limited hours a day to train and decades to devote to learning basic self defense, it may be all they ever need.

 

[John_Boy]

Well stated Sage. I have also been involved with the IKCA for a few years and have had a very positive experience with the founders...both in person and long distance.

Parker's statement "I would rather have ten techniques I can fight with rather than one hundred techniques that fight me." is born out in this system. It is a great place to start and like Sage said, it may be all the farther some want to go. In the case of the latter it is still a complete and effective method.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by John_Boy
Parker's statement "I would rather have ten techniques I can fight with rather than one hundred techniques that fight me." is born out in this system.

George Dillman, at a recent seminar, told a possibly apocrophal story of an Indonesian (I think) system with only 11 or 12 techniques. The instructor taught one technique per year and the students would practice constantly of course. The students knew those techniques very well.

How many techniques are there in boxing? How effective has it been?