Street Fight Means Moida Da Bum!

[Kirk]

I love my short time so far in kenpo. One thing I've notice among
boards in other places is in make believe scenarios about attacks
in the street, the replies that come in often are typically "eye
gouge, strike to the throat, etc. Something typically fatal. How
many of you here feel that each bar fight, street threat is a
threat on your life? I haven't been in a fight in over 15 years,
and I hope to never again, but I'll tell ya .. never during that time,
did I EVER intend on killing someone. And seeing how in the
decent amount of fights that I've been in, and didn't win all of
them, I think it's safe to say that it wasn't the intention of those
guys to kill me either, since I'm still alive. When I'm being taught
new techniques, I say to myself, "well maybe I'll elbow him in
the solarplexus, instead of the nose/eyes on this one" or "a
fist the the chin will hurt, and not maim in this case". I've posted
this topic on previous posts, and the typical reply is "if it's not
life or death, then you can probably walk away". I don't feel
that's always the case. Opinions?

 

[GouRonin]

Dunno about you but I am waaaaay easy going...until I snap. Then it's go time.

At that point I consider it me or him and I'm sure it'll be me who is still awake.

Before that though mostly I just laugh and walk away.

 

[Rob_Broad]

I belive that if it come down to me or him then, we are both going in a vehicle with sirens him in an ambulance me in a cop car.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I personally think that part of being a true martial artist is knowing how far to go. You can disable an attacker without crippling or killing them.

I mean, sure I can knuckle punch the throat, collapsing it and watching the poor shmuck gurgle as he sofacates. Or, I can go for the spinal shot that either kills or paralyzes. But why?

If my purpose is to survive, I don't have to do that much damage. I can disable him long enough to escape. I mean, think about it. Even in a life-or-death situation, you're gonna have to answer to the law at some point. Better to answer to his lawyer about his 2 broken wrists, than his widow.

:asian:

 

[Jay Bell]

I'm not a Kenpoka, I hope you don't mind me jumping in here...

I would never suggest that someone have it in their minds to kill an opponent in a street fight. However, I would suggest that someone be *prepared* to kill an opponent if it came down to it.

If in the midst of a fight someone pulled a weapon, intending to kill you, it is very possibly that you may have to end their life to survive the experiance.

It's a situation judged by what is currently taking place. If a drunk buddy at a bar swings on you, tearing his eyes out probably wouldn't feel too grand (and it leaves that damn mush all over your hands). Kidding aside, I think it's necessary for people to develop the instincts to be able to take life if the situation arises that calls for it.

Shots to the throat, eye gouges and whatnot, with control, can be more of a deterant then anything. A quick, non-penetraing shot to the adam's apple can definately make an attacker think twice about what they are doing....and often disrupt their mindset enough to end the confrontation.

 

[Rob_Broad]

You are right Kaith, but there are times when there amy not be a choice. I would rather be the one walikg if there was no other choice. It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I personally think that part of being a true martial artist is knowing how far to go. You can disable an attacker without crippling or killing them.

When I got to college the school offered judo, aikido, and kenpo. I checked them all out. The kenpo group turned me off with their "maim them, kill them, then maim them again" attitude. If we were still occupied by the British, maybe I'd need that kind of attitude, but if I had done that to a fellow college student in a bar the consequences would have been dire, and rightfully so. I took judo and aikido (until I injured my wrist). I liked the philosophies better.

I agree that one must be prepared for this possibility, but one must be prepared for many possibilities. The drunk brother-in-law is probably a more likely scenario for most of us.

 

[Kirk]

Our Creed says, "should I be forced to defend myself, my
principles or my honor; should it be a matter of life
or death, of right or wrong; " ... there's more there than
just "should I be forced to defend my life". I may need to
be an attacker one day, to defend someone that's getting
the snot beat out of him/her. I can't think of the scenario,
really, unless some man was attacking my wife or something,
but I just feel it in my bones that it could be difficult to get
out of a fight, yet my life isn't at stake.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Kenpoois tdo not train for overkill they train for overskill. This maim, kill, maim attitude, is just to know what to do if for some reason the attacker keeps coming. It looks brutal from the outside, but there is a lot of knowledge hidden in the techniques. It is very easy for the kenpo student to change the strike from lethal to just painful. I would rather have that nastiness to back me up when it counts. Some looks to the martial arst for enlightenment. I came for protection til the day I choose to look for enlightenment.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

If I had to, I guess I would, but...I like to think theres always an alternative. It really depends on the situation. The drunk at the bar, is alot different than being alone, in a demiliterized area at 4am.

The Kenpo techniques seem to seek to give you a huge variety of techniques to choose from in any given situation.

The Arnis techniques seek to give you the building blocks to a personalized arsenal to choose from in any given situation.

What most arts fail to do, at the lower belt levels, is give you the ability to know what to use when. I may seek only to stun, but the result may be fatal as I don't know where the "pull" point is. (adv. white in kenpo, white in arnis). That ability takes time, different for everyone.

And on the "mindset" of each art, they vary. Thats part of why there are so many arts. Each one fits a particular viewpoint.

IMHO.

 

[GouRonin]

Imagine if you will, a bowl, with smaller bowls each fitting inside it. Imagine now that the effort an attacker puts in is water that is being poured into the bowl.

The more "water" he puts in will fill up each larger bowl as it spills over. The less "water" he puts in means less spillage.

It's up to the attacker for me how much response he gets. The more he puts in the more response he gets as he reaches and surpasses the capacity of each bowl.

But make no mistake about it. I like to hurt him. I have no problem with that. It was his choice. Not mine. He could have taken his water elsewhere.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Gou, that was quite the answer. Very impressive, you are trying to live up to the philospher title.

 

[GouRonin]

I can claim the title quite easily. I have a university degree in Philosophy. While many claim to be a philosopher I have the paperwork behind my name. However, in my spare time I still like to punch people in the face.
:erg:

 

[Rob_Broad]

What can one do with a degree in philsophy. I am not trying to be derogatory I am just curious. I understand what a punch to the face can do, so what about the degree?

 

[Kirk]

hahahaha .. Gou and Rob, you two slay me! Rob beat me to
it, I was gonna say "How Bruce Lee-ish of you" It makes a
VERY valid point, and I enjoyed reading it! I like having the
arsenal also ... there's a lot of drugged attackers out there!

 

[John_Boy]

For me one of the biggest deciding factors is having a choice. Who was it that said,

"The warrior chooses to live the life of a pacifist, others are condemned to it."

I want the option to be able to do serious harm in an instant...that doesn't mean all I can do is serious harm. That means as a (hopefully ) well adjusted adult I can choose the level of response I desire to give to an attack.

I cannot think of a worse scenario than the one where a person has trained for years thinking they could defend themselves and their family only to find out when it was real that they could not. How sad.

It is a whole different question if the person has trained all of those years for something other than self defense purposes (ie. health, enlightenment, etc.)...then they are like the person who does Tae Bo and thinks they study karate. Hopefully in studying for self defense we also seek the other development as well to temper our choices.

Just thoughts...
John

 

[GouRonin]

If I had a penny for every time I was asked that question....

Most people teach. Some go to law. We always had a share of lawyers who went to school to take courses when they were aiming to be judges. Many are professional advocates.

 

[Rob_Broad]

Cool, I was just curious. And the next time I will give you a penny for answering the question.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've known several martial artists who were either studying or had degrees in Philosophy.

Of course, I've heard Gou can actually move with the best.

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz
I've known several martial artists who were either studying or had degrees in Philosophy.

Ah yes...I know just what you mean.

My second judo instructor was pursuing his Ph.D. in philosophy at the time, and eventually received it.