Kajukenpo and AK

[John Bishop]

Originally posted by John Bishop
These would be what is described as "limb destruction" techniques. Techniques like bottom fist cutting type strikes on the biceps or triceps.

 

[lhommedieu]

For example: parrying his straight right hand with your left hand while throwing a hammerfist with your right hand to the dummy's bicep - as you flank to your left. This is a limb destruction that temporarily disrupts the movement of the right arm - probably due to the disruption of the brachial nerve. It should be noted that it is not a discrete technique, but the first in a series of techniques that generally ends with a finish on the ground.

It is quite possible that such techniques may have been originally knife defenses designed to pass the opponent's weapon arm to the outside while you destroy his abililty to use the weapon (it's impossible use a knife with a severed biceps tendon, for example).

It is interesting to note that (going the other way), the incorporation of "limb destruction," trapping, and locking techniques onto a boxing foundation is quite common in some modern Filipino martial arts.

It is also thought by some that the angling and footwork skills taught in Filipino martial arts are well-suited to boxing, where ring generalship goes a long way towards winning bouts

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[CoolKempoDude]

lhommedieu,

thank you so much. You give me exactly what i want.....little deeper

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop

The "Original Method" didn't have gun techniques.

how did a kajukenbo guy deal with gun situation when "original method" didn't have gun techniques in the PAST???

 

[John Bishop]

Well I don't think any of the martial arts taught gun techniques in the 40's. Many of the Kajukenbo knife techniques can be used against a gun because they are jujitsu joint locks and arm bars.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop
Well I don't think any of the martial arts taught gun techniques in the 40's. Many of the Kajukenbo knife techniques can be used against a gun because they are jujitsu joint locks and arm bars.

interesting, i never though a knife technique can be used in gun situation.

i do want to live in 40 not 21 century where some idiots shoot at other for no reasons

 

[CoolKempoDude]

I want to understand more about *extension* techniques of AK and kajukenbo

John Bishop and AK people ,

everything you learn after having BB is an *extension* what you LEARNED before having BB ????

thanks

 

[Seig]

or/and the basics

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Seig
or/and the basics

you are the MAN.... well-put

 

[Karazenpo]

Thanks, Old Fat Kenpoka & CoolKempoDude. CoolKenpoDude, you asked me to elaborate more on ther jui jitsu but after reading Sigung Bishop's reply there's nothing I can add, he said it all. Karazenpo Go Shinj"U"tsu has always been spelled with the 'u' since its inception. Some of the Chinese Kempo systems such as the Chow/Chun connection of Goshinj"I"tsu Kai Chinese Kempo use the 'I'. If you see the "I" used in Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu, it is not the original spelling. It's much like the spellings of kenpo/kempo or ju jitsu/jui jitsu and so forth, no big thing but like I stated, the founder, Sijo Victor "Sonny" Gascon and the New England founder, Gm. S. George Pesare always spelled it Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu. As far as early gun techniques go, I do believe they were taught in the early Hawaiian kempo days. In James M. Mitose's book written in 1947 and published in 1953, What is Self Defense? (Kenpo Ju Jitsu) there is a section covering empty hand gun defenses. Also to concur with Sigung Bishop, I've noticed too that many knife disarms can substitute for gun disarms with little or sometimes no real modification. Respectfully submitted, Shihan Joe

 

[Karazenpo]

CoolKempoDude, I checked Nick Cerio's Kenpo's website. The only metion of Karazenpo Go Shinjutsu I saw was in his biography and it was spelled with a 'U'. ???

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Karazenpo,

all gun techniques comes from knife techniques???

Edit: i must look karazenpo go shinjItsu elsewhere....sorry for misunderstanding

i knew it wasn't not on nick cerios web site but when i tried to EDIT my post, it was too late because this forum only gives me 60 mins to EDIT

i waited too long. Sorry for misunderstanding.....thank you for clarifying

 

[Karazenpo]

No, "ALL" gun techniques don't come from knife techniques but there is a basic concept & principle on knife disarming using the acronym (pardon the pun) G.U.N. meaning Grab, Undo & Neutralize. This to applies to gun disarming so some of the techniques for knives, with a little adjustment, work for guns. Know what I mean?

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Karazenpo
No, "ALL" gun techniques don't come from knife techniques but there is a basic concept & principle on knife disarming using the acronym (pardon the pun) G.U.N. meaning Grab, Undo & Neutralize. This to applies to gun disarming so some of the techniques for knives, with a little adjustment, work for guns. Know what I mean?

knowledge is scary and freaky

Yes, I ABSOLUTELY know what you mean. :asian:

thank you

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Karazenpo,

club techniques falls under G.U.N category TOO????

 

[Karazenpo]

CoolKempoDude, No they wouldn't, different concepts. Clubs are classified as 'impact' weapons, knives as 'edged' weapons. In club defense you don't have to be 'so exacting'. Let me explain. A club is an extension of your reach. Defending against a club is similar to defending against a good Korean-style head kicker. You have to be close enought to 'kiss' him on the cheek to disarm him. Now, if you're not ready to move in (you don't want to hesitate going in or you may get caught half way) then you simply move the target, which is you!, either by ducking or stepping to another plane. This may be done as many times as it takes until you are ready to lunge in. If its a baseball bat with a baseball-type swing you can go in on the forward swing (when he cocks the bat back) or the reverse swing (cross-club), you may trap and uitilize close combat or infighting techniques to neutralize him. Depending on the length of the impact weapon, the attacker needs room to create momentum to develop power in the swing, in the case of a bat or tire iron, he needs more room than let's say a 'blackjack". A knife needs no room at a all, does not neccessarily need momentum or power, just a slight movement can be deadly. That's what I mean about being more exacting. You have to be conscience of where that knife is at all times. With the knife, control of the knife weilding arm is imperative and should you both go to the ground you can still be cut and/or killed. Say you rush in and jam a bat weilding opponent hard and you both go to the ground (that has happened in real encounters), you don't have to be concerned so much about the bat as you grapple with and neutralize the assailant. In close encounters I'm more comfortable dealing with a gun or club in close than a knife. Take a gun, you have two 'givens'. 1) the bullet comes out in linear motion and 2) you have to pull the trigger to fire it. No surprises! Very predictable but a knife can cut you from eight different angles and can be slashing, stabbing, poking, overhead, etc., unpredictable as to what the assailant will do. Also the other more comfortable part when dealing with a gun, you can grab the gun and hand while disarming, with the knife you can end up cutting a tendon or cutting your wrists. So even though there are some similiarities with the gun and knife techniques, there is still a difference and gun techniques are a 'modification' of knife, can be similiar but still different! Clubs defenses are most definitely different than the knife.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Karazenpo,

thanks for the information which is informative. You explain clearly. I agree with what you said here.

If anybody needs to add more about club,gun,knife techniques here, pls do so.

thank you

 

[Zoran]

One thing you should be aware of on gun defense, is to make sure the barrel never crosses you body while trying to take control. Also, grabbing at or above the wrist may not be a good idea either as the wrist can bend and the gun can still swivel and point at you.

On top of all that, since the gun is a projectile weapon, you need to be aware of other people. Especially if you have a loved one with you. If you disarm the attacker and the gun goes off during the process, which it probably will, you could quite possibly get someone dear to you killed.

Knife may be a real complex and scary problem, but the gun is more impersonal and presents all kinds of unique problems to deal with.

 

[Karazenpo]

Yes, Zoran. In our gun techniques we simultaneously turn the body, grab the gun (not the wrist) and redirect the gun toward the assailant. Sometimes, depending on the gun this may jam the inital shot, the grab that is, other times, ex. a semi-auto 'street ready' ( one in the chamber) has a good chance of going off. So, I base my techniques on a three-pronged back up 1) redirect the weapon 2) possibly jam the weapon 3) turn the body, all done simultaneously. This way all three would have to fail to be shot. Gotta go, talk to ya later, "Joe"

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Karazenpo,

knife techniques can be used in sword or something similiar weapon situation ???

gun techniques applied for short *hand gun* is still the same as M16 or AK47???