JTO: Aborigines offended by ice dance

[K-man]

Australia has treated it`s Aboriginal peoples like dirt for a long long time. They tried to wipe them out physically, culturally, and they still run roughshod over them in the courts etc. With all those big problems to fix down under, does a 5 minute skate routine done in the middle of Europe really carry that much weight?

This was a thread about a skating routine that upset some of of indigenous folk. You didn't mention non indigenous in terms of the skating but cast a slur on the non indigenous population and the Australian legal system.

Go back and reread what I wrote. I never said that it was the non indigignous peoples who were upset. I thought that by now everyone reading this thread understands very clearly that it was a group of Aboriginies that were protesting. And I mentioned all the problems they`ve faced in the past and at the present when making a point: namely that with all the genuine abuse that has been heaped on them at home the thing they`re choosing to focus on is a dance performance on another continent.

You 'mentioned' the problems of the past and linked them to the present then you slurred the older Australians by saying it is the younger Australians don't have the prejudice. Well, I am older and I remember the bad times. I was part of the referendum that brought the treatment of Aboriginal people into the 20th century. I love our aboriginal people and respect enormously their 40 thousand year history on this continent and their culture.

And yes we both share a long ugly history of treating our indiginous people like dirt.

That was the past. Maybe now we are in the process of rectifying some of our sins of previous generations but I will not stand by and take your slanderous statements about contemporary Australia without comment.

 

[K-man]

I brought this up on another forum and was called "racist", "extremist", and "a typical right wing prat" among other things. I was told that because I`m "white, male, and Mormon" I couldn`t understand how harmful this skating routine was to the sensabilities of the group protesting it.

If you brought this up on another forum and found that it upset people there, why did you re-post on this forum?

 

[Tez3]

We can't classify insults and discrimination into nice easy groups, 'oh that won't hurt you' and 'wow thats a big insult.'

If you are a Christian how would you feel to see the Crucifixion performed as a dance designed to entertain and gain points?

If you are an atheist how would you feel if your loved ones deaths, funerals and memories were used in the same way?

The Aborigines use dance to teach, to remember and for spiritual reasons. A little research would have found this out and the Russian couple could have, as has been suggested, contacted them and been given guidence in what to do. I doubt they would have been turned down and would have been shown things which the Aborigines would have been proud to have been associated with.

A little thought, a little respect and a little thought will go a long way towards making life easier and more pleasant for everyone.

A little self education would go a long way too.

K-man, you rock!

 

[David43515]

K-man, take it down a notch. If someone points out that "America has treated Blacks (or Gays, or Indians, or Mormons, or Irish, or Japanese, or Chinese etc) like dirt" I don`t get bent out of shape because I know it`s true. I also don`t assume that they`re insulting all Americans, because I know that not everyone has done those things.

When I said that most of the younger Australians I`ve met don`t share the same predgudices that were common in the past, it`s not the same thing as saying all older Australians are predjudiced. No matter what I say you seem to read alot more than was intended into it. If you feel that I`ve insulted you or your country as a whole I apologize and I want to assure you that it was never my intention to do so. Let`s just step back from this and bury the hatchet while everyone is still level-headed enough to be civil.

 

[JDenver]

You will never go through life unscathed, you may be physically assaulted, you will be emotionally distraught many times, you will feel insecure, and yes you will have your feelings hurt many times by things people say or do.

The thing is look at everything in context, for the most part, people are kind, and do not go out to intentionally hurt your feelings.

True. But voicing that someone is being ignorant, that they are being colonial, that they are denegrating a cultural form that has particular meaning, is not a bad thing. It isn't about 'hurt feelings'. It should be called out.

Did the skaters seek spiritual insight into the dance? Did they research the origins and hope to pay homage to the culture? I don't know, but I'd guess not. There is some malice in the willful ignorance of it.

 

[Omar B]

I just think it's pretty damn funny that these two pranced around in those costumes, with that choreography and that music. It takes a lot of commitment to go out of your way to look like that much of a dolt. But then, I always found figure skateing hilarious.

It's a shame that the "theme" they attempted to play upon and ended up butchering was not some fairy fantasy but actual people who would get offended (and rightly so) at two weirdos in tights.

It's a great time for the Aborigines to educate the world on who they are as a people now that these Blades Of Glory rejects have brought some attention to them.

 

[pgsmith]

Whining gets nothing but eye rolls from the vast majority of people. I clearly remember a number of years back when several American Indian "leaders" declared that they were "offended" by the use of "Redskins" and "Braves" for ball team names. It made the newspapers and many people, just like those of us here, argued endlessly back and forth about it. Meanwhile, all of the real native Americans that I knew thought the whole debate was stupid, and reflected badly on them because it was stupid. It was simply something brought to the newspapers attention to garner these particular leaders some publicity.

It's entirely possible that the same thing is occuring here. Have any of you bothered to talk to any native Australians to find out what they really think, or are you just going to blindly condemn those of us who aren't as "politically sensitive" as you feel we should be? I think that there are a ton of better "causes" to put your emotional two cents behind than this one.

pgsmith you really need to read up on Australian history before making such a crass comments.

Nope, I don't need to at all. Australian history does not interest me, and knowing it intimately would not change how I feel about the issue. You see, I've been there-done that on both the native American and Mexican sides of my heritage. I thought it was stupid then, and still think it is to this day. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but it also doesn't mean that you can force me into thinking that it makes sense, which it doesn't.

 

[Tez3]

Whining gets nothing but eye rolls from the vast majority of people. I clearly remember a number of years back when several American Indian "leaders" declared that they were "offended" by the use of "Redskins" and "Braves" for ball team names. It made the newspapers and many people, just like those of us here, argued endlessly back and forth about it. Meanwhile, all of the real native Americans that I knew thought the whole debate was stupid, and reflected badly on them because it was stupid. It was simply something brought to the newspapers attention to garner these particular leaders some publicity.

It's entirely possible that the same thing is occuring here. Have any of you bothered to talk to any native Australians to find out what they really think, or are you just going to blindly condemn those of us who aren't as "politically sensitive" as you feel we should be? I think that there are a ton of better "causes" to put your emotional two cents behind than this one.

Nope, I don't need to at all. Australian history does not interest me, and knowing it intimately would not change how I feel about the issue. You see, I've been there-done that on both the native American and Mexican sides of my heritage. I thought it was stupid then, and still think it is to this day. Doesn't mean you have to agree with me, but it also doesn't mean that you can force me into thinking that it makes sense, which it doesn't.

Well, I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

I shall leave you to carry on talking out of your ****. It's actually quite amusing, a sort of lesson in ignorant arrogance and airy superiority banded about by those who fancy themselves as worldly wise but are actually blind to the obvious. Oh and you've missed the point of what we were saying totally roflmao especially what the Australian posters were saying.

 

[pgsmith]

I shall leave you to carry on talking out of your ****. It's actually quite amusing, a sort of lesson in ignorant arrogance and airy superiority banded about by those who fancy themselves as worldly wise but are actually blind to the obvious.

My, my ... aren't you smug in your arrogant superiority. Surprisingly enough, you'll eventually figure out that many people have opposing viewpoints to yours on many different subjects. Disagreeing with your narrow minded, "oh so politically correct" viewpoint makes me neither arrogant, nor superior, nor does it mean that I am "talking out of my ****" as you so eloquently put it. It simply means that I don't agree with your viewpoint, and I attempted to explain to you why. However, you are obviously of either too closed of a mind, or too low of intelligence, to even be able to admit that your views may not be the be all, end all of intelligent thought. So be it. I do not post on fora such as this one to change anyone's views of life, simply to share my opinions. I did so, you don't have to like them. In fact, judging from how you've "expressed yourself" here, I would be quite relieved not to have any opinions in common.

 

[Tez3]

My, my ... aren't you smug in your arrogant superiority. Surprisingly enough, you'll eventually figure out that many people have opposing viewpoints to yours on many different subjects. Disagreeing with your narrow minded, "oh so politically correct" viewpoint makes me neither arrogant, nor superior, nor does it mean that I am "talking out of my ****" as you so eloquently put it. It simply means that I don't agree with your viewpoint, and I attempted to explain to you why. However, you are obviously of either too closed of a mind, or too low of intelligence, to even be able to admit that your views may not be the be all, end all of intelligent thought. So be it. I do not post on fora such as this one to change anyone's views of life, simply to share my opinions. I did so, you don't have to like them. In fact, judging from how you've "expressed yourself" here, I would be quite relieved not to have any opinions in common.

:lfao:

 

[pgsmith]

:lfao:

Another statement made with the outstanding eloquence that I've come to expect. Your grasp of the English language and your advanced debating techniques are truly astounding! I'll have to cede the point to you as your faultless logic has shredded all of my attempted counterpoints.

 

[Tez3]

Another statement made with the outstanding eloquence that I've come to expect. Your grasp of the English language and your advanced debating techniques are truly astounding! I'll have to cede the point to you as your faultless logic has shredded all of my attempted counterpoints.

I knew you'd appreciate me in the end, everyone does.:angel:


especially my old shift partner who returned to Oz the other week to give his daughter away in marriage to her Aussie fiance........ a very nice Aboriginal chap she met a couple of years ago.

 

[Tez3]

To anon, did you mean I was a **** because I don't know what a snit is. Being a buffoon isn't a bad thing you know, at least I amuse people lol!

 

[Carol]

I just saw the ice dance performed at the Olympics I thought it was disgusting.

The audience in Vancouver wasn't that thrilled with it either, although the judges gave it good marks....so far.

I guess marginalizing a minority is OK, especially if it is in pursuit of a gold medal. After all, there aren't enough of those aboringinies to put up that much of a fight, right? I mean....lets see now....being one of the aboriginies vs. being an olympic medalist......which is more important?

[/heavy sarcasm]