JTO: Aborigines offended by ice dance

[Clark Kent]

Aborigines offended by ice dance
By - 01-24-2010 04:10 PM
Originally Posted at: The Japan Times Online
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MELBOURNE, Australia (AP) An Aboriginal-themed routine by two Russian ice dancers has stirred up a pre-Olympic controversy, with some indigenous Australians blasting the "rip off" of their culture and Canadian native leaders worrying about the insensitivity of the skaters.
World champions Oksana Domnina and Maxim Shabalin danced at the European Championships in Estonia last week dressed in brown-toned costumes adorned with leaves and white Aboriginal-style markings, to music that included a didgeridoo riff.





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The Japan Times Online

 

[Sukerkin]

:sigh: I have decided that, henceforth, I shall be offended by anyone from any nation portraying the English culture without paying due licensing fees, particularly when all they can manage is a shallow stereotype of the true richness of my cultures history.

 

[David43515]

I personally feel deeply insulted when anyone who is not an American national uses electric light or flies in an airplane. It`s obvious that they are simply trying to "rip off" our indiginous culture.

However I`m willing to let them all continue to mimic Michael Jackson as long as I don`t have to watch.

 

[Ken Morgan]

the true richness of my cultures history.

Yeah right........

 

[Carol]

:sigh: I have decided that, henceforth, I shall be offended by anyone from any nation portraying the English culture without paying due licensing fees, particularly when all they can manage is a shallow stereotype of the true richness of my cultures history.

Will you take Madonna back? Please?

 

[JDenver]

Ick.

Cue the posts where we can all tell others what, why, and how they should feel about themselves and their culture. How dare someone feel offended! Why can't they be as strong as me?

Frankly, all of our opinions on this mean less than the opinions of those people portrayed.

 

[Tez3]

As always, pleasant to see the sensitive, caring and respectful side of MTers coming out. I expect it's all a big joke until they make fun of you then it's very different.

It's not much to ask to be given a bit of dignity after the way they've been treated.

 

[Sukerkin]

Honestly, in the words of Victor Meldrew, I don't believe it! I believe even less that there are those that don't see that taking serious offense from this is not rational let alone anything else.

If you are one of those that do feel that it is normal to be outraged about anything and everything, I would suggest it is better to save your ire for things that matter; otherwise the risk is run of protest about serious issues being lost in the tumult.

Oh and the irony of my position is not lost on me by the way :lol:.

 

[pgsmith]

Frankly, all of our opinions on this mean less than the opinions of those people portrayed

No, just yours. My opinions mean a lot to me!

Actually, I agree with Sukerkin. It seems to me that it was a perfect opportunity to share the truth about their culture with others, and comment on the ways that the actuality differs from what was portrayed. Instead, what is being written is that they are whining about being offended because someone noticed them. I put that right there with the people that whine about the name of the Redskins, Braves, or Pirates ball clubs. Being born and raised in Texas, I didn't get offended when my father-in-law, who was in Texas for the first time over Christmas, remarked that he surprised that he didn't see any Cadillacs with longhorns mounted on the front.

 

[Tez3]

So dressing up as black people, using sacred tribal symbols and mimicking sacred rites is fine? It obviously isn't to the Aboriginal people who've complained so why are we making fun of them being upset? I'm not offended by it, it's not my culture but I do find it odd that so many people find they can be amused by their obvious distress over this. I don't think 'horns on a Cadillac' has any religious or faith significance does it?



pgsmith you really need to read up on Australian history before making such a crass comments.

 

[Sukerkin]

Speaking for me, I'm not making fun and the point is neither were the skaters.

Any road, not going to change anyone's mind, no matter how daft they're being, so what's the bleeding point?

I've been meaning to take a break from the trivial torrent that is the Net for a while. Now's the time.

See you all ... sometime ... if I don't come back, it's was fun for a while.

 

[K-man]

I personally feel deeply insulted when anyone who is not an American national uses electric light or flies in an airplane. It`s obvious that they are simply trying to "rip off" our indiginous culture.

However I`m willing to let them all continue to mimic Michael Jackson as long as I don`t have to watch.

Which brings us to a skit on Australian Television..

The more senior of us would remember the popular B & W minstrel show from the 60s. (For those too young to know or too stoned to remember http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_and_White_Minstrel_Show ) Just shows how politically incorrect we can be!
Maybe, just maybe, the Aborigines have a point. :asian:

 

[mook jong man]

The aborigines would probably have liked to have been asked permission and probably would have only have been too happy to teach them so they could do it properly.

It is also worth noting that in aboriginal culture women are strictly forbidden to perform some dances as these can only be performed by men .

There are also certain ceremonies and dances that are only allowed to be be performed by women .

 

[David43515]

To be fair the newspaper story doesn`t say why the protesters were upset, just that they felt thier culture was being "ripped off." No mention was made of any religious intolerances. Anyone who was unfamiliar with the topic might just as easily beleive that it was because the dancers chose to use a digeridoo in thier music.

 

[Tez3]

To be fair the newspaper story doesn`t say why the protesters were upset, just that they felt thier culture was being "ripped off." No mention was made of any religious intolerances. Anyone who was unfamiliar with the topic might just as easily beleive that it was because the dancers chose to use a digeridoo in thier music.

Fair comment.
It may have been ignorance on the Russians part, perhaps they thought it was folk music and dances instead of spiritual and sacred acts.

I wouldn't care if they'd performed English country dances such as Morris etc or even as Beefeaters or Guardsmen that sort of thing but I think if they'd dressed up as vicars or priests and danced through Mass or funeral service Christians too would be upset. I'd be upset if they'd dressed as rabbis and danced a version of Kol Nidre, I would be offended at the lack of thought and respect for anothers culture and religion.

 

[JDenver]

Speaking for me, I'm not making fun and the point is neither were the skaters.

No, the point is that you have no standing to TELL ABORIGINAL PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD FEEL ABOUT THE SKATERS.

It doesn't matter that you're not offended and is frankly insensitive of you to ignore and belittle those who are. They're offended, what's with the judgment?

 

[David43515]

Sorry, I still say that with all the real intentional discrimination going on in the world, getting bent out of shape because two skaters thousands of miles away unintentionally offended you by using your traditional music and costumes that look vaguely similar to your ritual symbals is pretty childish. Was anyone injured? Was anyone prevented from doing something that they had a right to do? No in both cases. All that happened was that for 5 minutes someone was offended.

I brought this up on another forum and was called "racist", "extremist", and "a typical right wing prat" among other things. I was told that because I`m "white, male, and Mormon" I couldn`t understand how harmful this skating routine was to the sensabilities of the group protesting it.

I was born white and male with little choice in the matter as I recall. I did choose my religion but fail to see how relavent it was to the discussion. However I have had plenty of experience with what I consider "real" discrimination. I`ve been told to my face in the US and other countries that I was being denied jobs and housing because "we don`t hire white guys". I`ve dated girls whose families forbid them to see me because I wasn`t black, Mexican, Japanese, or Catholic. I dated a girl whose family thought I was the best boyfriend she ever had for three years but when I proposed to her the father threatened to disown her if she didn`t stop seeing me because I wasn`t Japanese. On different occations I`ve been spit on, beaten up, fired, and had my life threatened when people found out I was a Mormon. I`ve had food and drinks thrown on me for speaking with an American accent in the wrong places in Australia. Those were all intentional acts. Every week I put up with unintentional racist comments from my students and coworkers here in Japan just because they live such insulated lives they don`t realize they`re being offensive. And since there`s no malice involved and they really are trying to be polite, I usually let it slide without comment. But after all that I think there`s more going on in the world to worry about than a skater`s choice of music and costumes.

Australia has treated it`s Aboriginal peoples like dirt for a long long time. They tried to wipe them out physically, culturally, and they still run roughshod over them in the courts etc. With all those big problems to fix down under, does a 5 minute skate routine done in the middle of Europe really carry that much weight? Am I really missing that much of the big picture?

 

[K-man]

I was born white and male with little choice in the matter as I recall. I did choose my religion but fail to see how relavent it was to the discussion. However I have had plenty of experience with what I consider "real" discrimination. I`ve been told to my face in the US and other countries that I was being denied jobs and housing because "we don`t hire white guys". I`ve dated girls whose families forbid them to see me because I wasn`t black, Mexican, Japanese, or Catholic. I dated a girl whose family thought I was the best boyfriend she ever had for three years but when I proposed to her the father threatened to disown her if she didn`t stop seeing me because I wasn`t Japanese. On different occations I`ve been spit on, beaten up, fired, and had my life threatened when people found out I was a Mormon. I`ve had food and drinks thrown on me for speaking with an American accent in the wrong places in Australia. Those were all intentional acts. Every week I put up with unintentional racist comments from my students and coworkers here in Japan just because they live such insulated lives they don`t realize they`re being offensive. And since there`s no malice involved and they really are trying to be polite, I usually let it slide without comment. But after all that I think there`s more going on in the world to worry about than a skater`s choice of music and costumes.

Australia has treated it`s Aboriginal peoples like dirt for a long long time. They tried to wipe them out physically, culturally, and they still run roughshod over them in the courts etc. With all those big problems to fix down under, does a 5 minute skate routine done in the middle of Europe really carry that much weight? Am I really missing that much of the big picture?

I would suggest you have enough of your own personal problems without buying in for more.
Your comments on Australia's treatment of Aboriginals is inflammatory, offensive and in poor taste. Many countries have issues from their colonial past and Australia in no different. There are problems but it is not necessarily the fault of the court system. The great majority of Australians treat Aboriginals the same way as they would treat any other person, with politeness and respect.
And, yes you are missing the big picture. It was the Aboriginal people who were upset by insensitive use of their culture, not the non indigenous.
Well done with your comments. You've managed to upset Aboriginals and non-aboriginals alike.

 

[Ken Morgan]

I’m certainly not picking any sides here, but in relation to this issue, it’s about people “making” us feel bad.

The only one, who can make you feel bad, is you. You have to choose to be offended by what others say or do.

Religious folks get offended all the time when atheists say things about their particular religion, hence a new blasphemy law in Ireland. Atheists get bent out of shape when the religious guys say bad things about them. Look at this forum, say something even remotely negative about the USA, the UK and some other places and people pounce on you like Homer Simpson on a donut.

You will never go through life unscathed, you may be physically assaulted, you will be emotionally distraught many times, you will feel insecure, and yes you will have your feelings hurt many times by things people say or do.

The thing is look at everything in context, for the most part, people are kind, and do not go out to intentionally hurt your feelings. Yes people do many stupid things, so we all need to be a little bit more forgiving and a little less judgmental, it makes going through life so much ********** easier for everyone.

 

[David43515]

I would suggest you have enough of your own personal problems without buying in for more.
Your comments on Australia's treatment of Aboriginals is inflammatory, offensive and in poor taste. Many countries have issues from their colonial past and Australia in no different. There are problems but it is not necessarily the fault of the court system. The great majority of Australians treat Aboriginals the same way as they would treat any other person, with politeness and respect.
And, yes you are missing the big picture. It was the Aboriginal people who were upset by insensitive use of their culture, not the non indigenous.
Well done with your comments. You've managed to upset Aboriginals and non-aboriginals alike.

Go back and reread what I wrote. I never said that it was the non indigignous peoples who were upset. I thought that by now everyone reading this thread understands very clearly that it was a group of Aboriginies that were protesting. And I mentioned all the problems they`ve faced in the past and at the present when making a point: namely that with all the genuine abuse that has been heaped on them at home the thing they`re choosing to focus on is a dance performance on another continent.

I`m well aware that the vast majority of younger Aussies don`t share the predjudices that were part of the everyday life in Australia even fifty years ago. The vast majority of the Australians I meet here each year are great people. So are most of the Americans. And yes we both share a long ugly history of treating our indiginous people like dirt. If being reminded of that struck such a nerve that you missed the whole point of the post I don`t know what to say other than take a deep breath and read it again.