Is there Shaolin practitioners on this forum?

[clfsean]

Yes, it is. I am learning from Masters David and Sharon Soard. They are the founders.

Ah... this explains much.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, it is. I am learning from Masters David and Sharon Soard. They are the founders.

I believe they split from Sin The in Lexington, KY, yes?

 

[clfsean]

I believe they split from Sin The in Lexington, KY, yes?

Lexington yes, Sin The no.

 

[Flying Crane]

Lexington yes, Sin The no.

well I believe Sin The is in Lexington, and I believe the Soards were students if him?

 

[clfsean]

well I believe Sin The is in Lexington, and I believe the Soards were students if him?

Yes & no.

On a high level ...

Sin's located in Cali (Suburbs of LA). Now he's tour circuit to his schools only but doesn't have "his school" per se. He's been there AT LEAST since late 90's.

The Soards originally trained under him & then set up shop in Denver. There was a big schism in the late 80's early 90's between East & West. At that point Soards were doing their own thing & everything else was Lexington. Now there's Denver, Lexington & Ga/Tenn contingents. I was in during the Lexington -- Ga/Tenn break & then left shortly after but still know people involved.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes & no.

On a high level ...

Sin's located in Cali (Suburbs of LA). Now he's tour circuit to his schools only but doesn't have "his school" per se. He's been there AT LEAST since late 90's.

The Soards originally trained under him & then set up shop in Denver. There was a big schism in the late 80's early 90's between East & West. At that point Soards were doing their own thing & everything else was Lexington. Now there's Denver, Lexington & Ga/Tenn contingents. I was in during the Lexington -- Ga/Tenn break & then left shortly after but still know people involved.

Ah, I knew there was a split, and I knew he was in Lexington but did not know that he had moved to LA. Must be nice to just tour around and visit schools all the time. And people pay him real money to do that? I'm in the wrong line of work.

I'm surprised that the Soard's can actually use the name of Shaolin Do, that seems like something Sin would have held control over. But I don't care even a little bit, I'm just a rubbernecker at this point.

Was it Mr. Soard who got himself into some serious criminal troubles?

 

[clfsean]

Ah, I knew there was a split, and I knew he was in Lexington but did not know that he had moved to LA. Must be nice to just tour around and visit schools all the time. And people pay him real money to do that? I'm in the wrong line of work.

Yes indeedy... that is the way to fly!!

I'm surprised that the Soard's can actually use the name of Shaolin Do, that seems like something Sin would have held control over. But I don't care even a little bit, I'm just a rubbernecker at this point.

Franchising baby!!! They pay Sin, their offshoots pay them, etc...

Was it Mr. Soard who got himself into some serious criminal troubles?

Indeed. Plenty of news on it out there available with your favorite search engine.

 

[Napitenkah]

Ah... this explains much.

Please tell me, what does it explain to you. And why was there things about me that needed explaining.

 

[Napitenkah]

I have been looking at the information about David Soard, which I did not know about.

Especially that he did plead guilty, and essentially got off.

This is something I am not about to defend.

And I am seriously going to contemplate ever going back.

 

[clfsean]

Please tell me, what does it explain to you. And why was there things about me that needed explaining.

No.

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...e’s-Private-Match?p=1581430#post1581430

 

[clfsean]

I have been looking at the information about David Soard, which I did not know about.

Especially that he did plead guilty, and essentially got off.

This is something I am not about to defend.

And I am seriously going to contemplate ever going back.

Don't let the legal issues be the only deciding factor in making you question going back. Do your research on CMA's more & deeper.

Read this post... it will make sense ... http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/sh...uce-Lee’s-Private-Match?p=1581430#post1581430

 

[Napitenkah]

At this point, the Belt level for me here, equals the belt level at the Shao-lin center.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have been looking at the information about David Soard, which I did not know about.

Especially that he did plead guilty, and essentially got off.

This is something I am not about to defend.

And I am seriously going to contemplate ever going back.

An ex-girlfriend of mine had come to San Francisco and was excited to train with a famous Sifu here. She trained with him for a short period of time, and then during a private lesson he took the opportunity to cop a feel on her. It was tremendously upsetting to her. She had placed him on a pedestal and the realization that he fell far short of her expectations was a hard blow. She never went back to his class again and was quite angry over it for a long time.

Some of these people hold themselves out to be great, when they only deserve our scorn. It's a bummer when you find out it's your own sifu, or the head of your group.

Anyway, there's other issues with the Shaolin-Do groups, a few of us here have some past experience with them and they just kinda present themselves as something that they are not. That's why it becomes a bit of a hot topic around here.

 

[Napitenkah]

Well, consider this.
I was ready to tear up my first and only certificate and never go back.
Then I talked to someone very close to me, who knows about sexual abuse.
He did cheat on his wife, or maybe not, maybe they have that hippy attitude of free love.
All I know is they are still together.
He did have inappropriate relationships with apparently 2 female students. yes.
"Soard's attorney, said his client had e-mails and text messages showing an ongoing relationship between his client and the students with whom he had sexual contact. He said the relationships were inappropriate but consensual."
!?!
And he got off with 2 years probation, and counseling.
What happened?
Did he jump on them in class, and force himself on them?
Doesn't sound like it.
That was my initial reaction, as it would be for most people. The B@##$% raped them.
Another initial reaction which we talked over was that the students didn't know how to tell him they were not interested, because they didn't expect he would ever do that as a Master instructor.
But sending emails and texts, at some point anyone can get up the nerve to text; "We can't do this anymore, I am not comfortable with this."
One possibility, which came from my wife, and if she didn't feel this, she would never say anything like it.
One or both girls expected that he would be willing to leave his wife for them, and he didn't, and they turned on him.
As my wife put it, "females can be vicious" I said guys could do that too, and she agreed.
But there is the possibility, since he only got probation, that the type of relationship didn't really qualify as forced sexual contact.
Which he would likely be in jail for.
I am still going through it, and deciding. I do know that people can be accused of something that either they didn't do, or didn't happen exactly as accused.
As for the Shaolin credentials, on one part, I do not care, I want to learn Kung Fu and a school without spotless credentials is just as good as one that does have them.
I have been to both, and they both have their flaws and deceptions.
I know one thing, I am aware and not gullible.
I know there is alot of psychological hooks with both of them.
But I have seen the discussions on this school awhile ago, and so far, nothing is solid.
Most of it seems to center around Sin_the.

 

[clfsean]

Fine. Thought you should know. Have a good time.

Also keep one thing in mind & this is pretty much a given from everywhere in the CMA community. SD is not Shaolin martial arts. They have a core of their own material which if you can ignore the BS & work on it on your own, you probably will get something out of it.

But remember that Sin The has admitted under oath about what he has done. The Soards perpetuate it.

Cavaet Emptor.

 

[Napitenkah]

I'll have to check it out, because I haven't really found specifically what he did, except apparently saying something about knowing a huge amount of forms, that people find hard to believe.
I do know that the soards have not even referred to who he is, or anything about him, since I have been there.
It is just on the certificate, not even on the school banner.

And they would if they wanted to, I once asked about something to do with the southern shaolin, like a one dimensional question, and Sharon went on for nearly a half an hour on everything about southern shaoilin.

 

[Napitenkah]

In the book they wrote about it, that they give to the students, there is nothing on who Sin-the is.

 

[Napitenkah]

Looking it over, it all stems from a thread on Bullshido, and the other MA sites went off of that.

One funny deviation was the part where Sin-the stopped doing sandburn, "Sin Thé stopped the training after a sandburn master accidentally picked up his grandchild without special gloves and the baby was killed."

But on one MA forum it had evolved to Sin the burning the baby.

Now the sandburn is not a hard thing to believe with a baby and its really sensitive skin.

But anyway, I have been to Bullshido. I was there for maybe 2 days. After the first 5 minutes, I saw that their investigations of MA people were lacking in quality and honor, and I said so. After that it was a war of words.
:wuguns:

If what they are talking about, any of it happens to be true, it was only by chance, not their efforts. I replace the D with a T. :EG:

 

[clfsean]

Looking it over, it all stems from a thread on Bullshido, and the other MA sites went off of that.

One funny deviation was the part where Sin-the stopped doing sandburn, "Sin Thé stopped the training after a sandburn master accidentally picked up his grandchild without special gloves and the baby was killed."

But on one MA forum it had evolved to Sin the burning the baby.

Now the sandburn is not a hard thing to believe with a baby and its really sensitive skin.

But anyway, I have been to Bullshido. I was there for maybe 2 days. After the first 5 minutes, I saw that their investigations of MA people were lacking in quality and honor, and I said so. After that it was a war of words.
:wuguns:

If what they are talking about, any of it happens to be true, it was only by chance, not their efforts. I replace the D with a T. :EG:

This will be my last post concerning this to you. Take it for what it's worth.

Shaolin-do / Sin The /et al ... have a history to taking forms from different sources & labeling them as their own along with some BS story about temples & monks. I've already hashed this out with other people about the forms they've absconded. Then there is the peformance & lack of understanding with those forms to the point of being silly.

Visual proof... go look up "Jake Mace" on Youtube. He's the guy that Sin Tried to sue unsuccessfully. He's also a former black belt from the Soards school. Watch him "perform" say ... Chen Taiji or Xing or Bagua... then youtube those same things by people who practice them from the foundation up.

ENjoy your time there. Watch out for the Kool aide, I hear it has a bite.

 

[Flying Crane]

I've really got to side with CLFSEAN on this one. Sean and I have both had experience with SD in the past, so we aren't just rubberneckers looking in. He and I and others like Xue have all had some very solid training in legitimate Chinese arts, and that has given us perspective to know the difference when we see it, and what we see in SD is just very questionable.

We see claims of huge amounts of material that is just impossible to hang onto. There's no way that any one person can learn all that, much less reach and then maintain "mastery" of any of it. There are only so many hours in the day, and so many days in the week, and the numbers of stuff, the endless lists of sets, it's just impossible to believe that there is any level of quality behind it.

GIven our perspective, coupled with videos that we've seen of people doing SD, we can see that the quality isn't there. The stuff that they do, it is shallow mimicry and does not indicate any true understanding of what the material is or what it is supposed to teach or what lessons and training drills exist within it.

Add to that the claim that Sin The is THE GRANDMASTER of Shaolin, well that's just really really far-fetched. So the whole thing is just a bad deal, from our perspectives.

Another thing: I only know Sean and Xue from the forums here. I've never met them face-to-face, and I don't think they've met each other either. So we aren't a group of guys who hang out together and have an agenda against SD. We are guys from different parts of the country, who recognize what we see and are simply speaking up to let you know.