Is the new generation of Martials Artist lacking in toughness?

[ralphmcpherson]

Yeah a lot of the really tough stuff is geared to women now.
Tough mudder is popular with women.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z7fFoTimZg

Strong is the new sexy.

I have a theory about that and women soldiers. That the idea that they are not as strong as guys is that their training has previously been a bit crap.

For functional fitness they seem to do OK. But it just takes a few years to develop it.

Tough mudder is only "tough" for people who do no exercise. It isnt much of a real challenge for fit people. They market it as a grueling workout, just like a lot of martial arts clubs promote themselves as a "great workout". It may be grueling compared to sitting on the couch watching TV but as far as real exercise goes it is relatively soft in the majority of cases.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

Tough mudder is only "tough" for people who do no exercise. It isnt much of a real challenge for fit people.

I think 20 km on flat pavement is pretty challenging, let alone 20 km as an obstacle course. You don't agree?

 

[drop bear]

Tough mudder is only "tough" for people who do no exercise. It isnt much of a real challenge for fit people. They market it as a grueling workout, just like a lot of martial arts clubs promote themselves as a "great workout". It may be grueling compared to sitting on the couch watching TV but as far as real exercise goes it is relatively soft in the majority of cases.

Could be. But they promote tough and get numbers. there is tougher courses. And they get numbers.

Up the ante. Longest day.

And girls still do it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rZhDKp00Tz4

http://arminbaniaz.com/2013/05/the-longest-day.html

You can sell tough training to people.

We do a 12 week program taking people off the street and putting them in a mma fight. Or boxing if they want ( no elbows 3 minute rounds)

 

[drop bear]

I think 20 km on flat pavement is pretty challenging, let alone 20 km as an obstacle course. You don't agree?

Going to depend how you do it too. If you are super fit and Bludge through is different to if you are trying to beat a time. If you smashed that course it is going to be a challenge.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KHqujP5vLS4

It is on my bucket list

People are actively choosing to do this.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7tjIDPAeI-o

There has to be a way to get tkd schools that train hard students.

 

[Archtkd]

There has to be a way to get tkd schools that train hard students.

The way is there, but it's not easy and often not lucrative.

 

[drop bear]

The way is there, but it's not easy and often not lucrative.

There has to be a way to create appeal for it.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

I think 20 km on flat pavement is pretty challenging, let alone 20 km as an obstacle course. You don't agree?

Over here tough mudder was 8klms. I run 40-50 klms a week and I dont consider myself to be overly fit

 

[drop bear]

Over here tough mudder was 8klms. I run 40-50 klms a week and I dont consider myself to be overly fit

I don't think you would get people to participate just because its tough. Otherwise you can elite level fitness your way out of having any students.

But you can train with the desire to be tough. So instead of people trying to avoid or fight the hard work aspect they embrace it. So even if you are not an elite level athlete you are trying in some way to become one.

 

[Rumy73]

Could be. But they promote tough and get numbers. there is tougher courses. And they get numbers.

Up the ante. Longest day.

And girls still do it.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rZhDKp00Tz4

http://arminbaniaz.com/2013/05/the-longest-day.html

You can sell tough training to people.

We do a 12 week program taking people off the street and putting them in a mma fight. Or boxing if they want ( no elbows 3 minute rounds)

Lol. Ok this tough guy stuff makes me laugh. Join the military... Or Kobra Kai.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

People are actively choosing to do this.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7tjIDPAeI-o

There has to be a way to get tkd schools that train hard students.

I watched the video and saw that it was people get eletrically shocked. I would not do this in TKD - I would be thinking "what's the point?".

 

[Rumy73]

I watched the video and saw that it was people get eletrically shocked. I would not do this in TKD - I would be thinking "what's the point?".

It is more like hazing than anything else. I seriously question the guys who are laughing at other people getting hurt.

 

[drop bear]

I watched the video and saw that it was people get eletrically shocked. I would not do this in TKD - I would be thinking "what's the point?".

Well it was funny.

And you are right no real point. So if people are getting electric shocked for no reason. You should be able to sell a little discomfort in tkd.

I am not trying to sell tough mudder I am trying to point out there is a market out there if you product is hard to do tkd.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Of course you can market Taekwon-Do, or any martial art, for a high level of fitness. You might even talk to a gym or other fitness facility about hosting a non-"cardio kickboxing" class that is geared to people who are interested in increasing their overall fitness level. It could take a bit of time to build up a student base but it's possible.

I have to say, however, that comparing things to "Tough Mudder" is an analogy that limps a bit. TM seems to me to be more analogous to a shugyo type of training. That it, it's an experience of hardcore training that is geared to people who already have a good base in training. From what little I have seen of it, TM is billed as a special event, one that you don't do everyday. Shugyo is an intense training experience that is undertaken by people who already train and is even more intense than their normal training regime. It's supposed to really put you through your paces, just like Tough Mudder. As such I don't know if having TM as an analogy for general MA training is accurate.

Pax,

Chris

 

[drop bear]

Of course you can market Taekwon-Do, or any martial art, for a high level of fitness. You might even talk to a gym or other fitness facility about hosting a non-"cardio kickboxing" class that is geared to people who are interested in increasing their overall fitness level. It could take a bit of time to build up a student base but it's possible.

I have to say, however, that comparing things to "Tough Mudder" is an analogy that limps a bit. TM seems to me to be more analogous to a shugyo type of training. That it, it's an experience of hardcore training that is geared to people who already have a good base in training. From what little I have seen of it, TM is billed as a special event, one that you don't do everyday. Shugyo is an intense training experience that is undertaken by people who already train and is even more intense than their normal training regime. It's supposed to really put you through your paces, just like Tough Mudder. As such I don't know if having TM as an analogy for general MA training is accurate.

Pax,

Chris

Fair enough. But cross fit. Boot camp, mma?

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

And you are right no real point. So if people are getting electric shocked for no reason. You should be able to sell a little discomfort in tkd.

I agree in terms of discomfort such as pushing your heart rate and having tired muscles. What I personally have had an issue with though, is getting is discomfort from injuries and being told to tough it out and continue, resulting in a chronic injury that takes months/years to heal 100%.

 

[drop bear]

I agree in terms of discomfort such as pushing your heart rate and having tired muscles. What I personally have had an issue with though, is getting is discomfort from injuries and being told to tough it out and continue, resulting in a chronic injury that takes months/years to heal 100%.

It depends on the injury. Fight training will usually result in something. You just can't stop every time. What most people lack is focusing on recovery.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I am now wise to know that for myself, I am better off to stop if continuing will worsen the injury. I mean both at the time of the injury, and also over the future days/weeks/month.

 

[Michael89]

i own it to my friend who is karateka for my toughness. he hit me with bo staff. hitting my neck, arms, legs. my nuts. also hit me on my neaves. it wasn't fun but worth it! i haven't done that in awhile.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Fair enough. But cross fit. Boot camp, mma?

As I said in the first paragraph of my post, of course you can market Taekwon-Do to a population whose main emphasis is going to be getting fit without recourse to running a cardio-kickboxing type program. But it would take time to build up a client base, partially because you'd have to deal with a general population that sees martial arts in general as something of a kids' activity at this point. BJJ and MMA have largely avoided this because of some very specific, coordinated marketing. (With all the pictures I've seen of MMArtists covered in blood in a caged in octagon I'm not sure anyone would sign their kid up for such an activity. YYMV, of course.)

How would you start changing people's view of TKD as an activity that like that in the video that was posted in the other thread? It would take a lot of marketing based on TKD's military background, its usefulness in self-defense, its ability to foster a general athleticism (without devolving into simple "tricking"), etc. I'd also emphasize that there are two distinct martial arts (or at least two distinct styles) that sue the same name but have little in common.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Thousand Kicks]

What does tougher mean? Sparring without protective gear? Training like a warrior from a bygone era? If a person wants that type of thing, he should join the military or get into law enforcement. Heck, even work as a bouncer. A TKD school is not pure military training; it never has been either. While it can certainly be intensely demanding, such as for those who make it to high-level competition, it is NOT some bloodsport.

I guess I think of tough in two ways; mentally and physically.

On the physical side. I do not think you have to try to kill each other while training to be tough. However, I think at some point you have to spar and train with intensity and with some amount of contact. TKD is, at it's heart, a self defense system. As such I think it's important for practitioners to understand that training requires contact, that tournament fighting requires contact, that to truly prepare yourself for a self defense scenario, you have to understand what it's like to get hit. That doesn't mean somebody should smack you in the face with a bat every class. But, after some time training a group of students should be okay with turning it up a notch.

On the mental side. It simply comes down to perseverance. If you have never pushed yourself to you breaking point, then how do you expect to get better? When you're sucking wind, your muscles hurt, and there's still 20 minutes left in class; that's where you find out what you're made of.

I don't think all students of TKD want to go this far. But, for those that say they want to be this great martial artist, there is no magic trick, there's only hard work. I guess lately I don't see many students who really want what they say they want.