Is Akido worth learning? (Self Defense)

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Kajjustu, Mar 18, 2020.

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  1. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    Not an Aikido guy (though I read "The Dynamic Sphere" with interest), but as an Okinawan TMA guy, the joint locks and subsequent takedowns are as you describe - tight and close in with damage done before the opponent is on his way down. Like the style you were referencing, seito Okinawan karate does not have much flair to the untrained eye.
     
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  2. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    If you find a real Aikido school, yes.

    The problem is that there's so many bad Aikido schools out there that it makes finding a real one very difficult.

    You're honestly better off just looking into a Judo or Bjj school. Especially Judo if you're looking for that Japanese flavor. Once you get your black belt in Judo (or Purple in Bjj), you can pretty much go to any Aikido school you want and apply their principles to what you already know.
     
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  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd argue you don't need to get to black/purple for that to be true. A solid BJJ blue belt (if coming from a school that does sufficient standing work) would have a reasonable grasp on the grappling principles needed to understand how to apply what's being developed in those Aikido drills. I'm not sure what level of Judo player I'd say here, but if they've trained a year at a good place, that's probably enough foundation to change how they view Aikido.
     
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  4. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    A solid blue is fair. I just tend to go for purple because that's a safer bet. But yeah, a 2-3 stripe Blue belt should be good enough.
     
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  5. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    More importantly if you are about defeating someone without maiming them bjj, judo, wrestling. Do that on a more consistent basis.

    Because you are not supposed to break your training partners.
     
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  6. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    If you follow the above advice, which IS sound in my opinion, you've got to be the kind of student that doesn't just "do what the class is doing," but pays attention to what the instructor is saying and what actual concept they're trying to convey.

    It's quite difficult to just "understand" the total sphere that is the principle of "Body Drop and Body Rise"unles you really dig in with your mind.
     
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  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Not intended as insult but do you catch a sweat or build any sort of conditioning when training Akikai?
     
  8. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Blue Belt

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    Depends on the school. Most dojos will probably do more for you than brisk walking but maybe not much more. Some will do much more than that. If you're primary goal is getting a good workout in as part of your training you will almost certainly get a more intense workout from boxing, Muay Thai, BJJ, TKD, or other sport related arts and will likely get a better workout from other TMA's that are more focused on more aggressive techniques.
     
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  9. Buka

    Buka Sr. Grandmaster

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    Anything is worth learning. Wether it's embraced or influences you in some way, depends. But, what the hell, give it a shot.

    And right now, it ain't like you don't have the time.
     
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  10. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    So true. Well, maybe not "anything," but almost. Regardless of your views on the efficacy of Aikido against a resisting opponent, there are many great elements in it. Smoothness of motion, flowing with the opponent, concept of center, etc... These can all be used in other MA. Could you live without aikido? Sure. But when you study one art, and find similarities from another art, it helps reinforce those concepts.

    Just yesterday, I was watching an ex-Gracie (personal) student BJJ blackbelt work out a little on arm options when a triangle choke is not doing its thing. Based on the top guy's exact position, one arm or the other could be taken and put in a submission lock with a subtle shift of the hips. I was much impressed of how an adjustment of just a few inches can lead from a choke with the legs to a submitting arm lock (with the legs now quietly assisting in providing body torque.)

    I am trying to process this way of switching from one technique to a completely different one (without hardly moving) and how it can relate to karate. Yes, I already use this general concept in karate, but seeing it in this fashion from such a different art as BJJ puts a new slant on it. Perhaps some specific elements can be useful in some way to my primary art. As Buka recommends, I'll give it a shot.
     
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  11. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Next time, have your personal student show you the Omoplata (shoulder lock) from a failed triangle. That's my personal fave combination from the Triangle set up.
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That will depend where you train and how much effort you put in. One of the most physically demanding classes Is be participated in was an Aikikiai class in Lisbon. Several others I’ve attended elsewhere were among the least demanding.
     
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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think the Triangle is locked on there and he is just finishing with the arm bar.

    But thread the Triangle ompaloompa armbar sequence is probably a must for learning the Triangle.
     
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  14. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Black Belt

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    Just to clarify - I think you misread. This BJJ senior blackbelt is not my personal student, but was Royce Gracie's (if my memory is correct - possibly were contemporary students?) We just practice/teach at the same location.
     
  15. Tenshin

    Tenshin Yellow Belt

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    Best thing to do is go to an Aikido school and see first hand. I have been to many Aikido schools and there is mostly compliance, little to no resistance, and Uke throwing/projecting themselves. It has a different feel to how Judo/Wrestling/BJJ approaches things, I never had any of them do any of that.
    All the Aikido guys are nice people, sincere, and enjoy the art from the ones I have met at different dojo.
     
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  16. dvcochran

    dvcochran Grandmaster

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    Tenshin, I love your avatar!
     
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  17. Tenshin

    Tenshin Yellow Belt

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    Thats my 3 year old doing a collar choke
     
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  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I’ve visited two aikido schools that I was highly impressed with, and one that I was not.

    I’ve been told of one or two more, by people whose judgement I trust, that were also impressive and rigorous.

    So it depends on the school and the instructor (anyone ever heard that before, in the martial arts?) but yes, if you are interested in that approach, of course it is worth learning.

    I always point out that people need to find a system that is a good match for them personally, along with a skilled and knowledgeable teacher with whom they have a good rapport. No system is equally good for everyone, all other things being equal.

    I think it’s a mistake, at least as a beginner, to approach this with the thought of, I need to collect a background in certain kinds of fighting. For most people, the issues I pointed out above are more important and you need to find that good fit, for you. That is what will keep you training in the long run, and ultimately will give you the best chance of success in your training.

    People who are interested in competition have a greater need to seek out the blend of skills that best works within the competition rules. But for most people who are not interested in competition it isn’t as relevant and isn’t something that needs to be worried about if you aren’t otherwise interested in pursuing multiple methods.
     
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  19. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    If you're looking for self defense, a school that's offering little resistance training isn't going to be of much use to you when you need to protect yourself. Unfortunately there's quite a bit of that in modern Aikido.
     
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  20. Ivan

    Ivan Brown Belt

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    You described the main problem with Aikido, in my opinion, right there. It's specifically designed to immobilise, but not hurt. I have disdain for this because out of all the confrontations I have had, my opponents never went easy on me, and the idea that I should is something I disagree with.

    There is a very good book about Aikido called Angry White Pyjamas, a real page-turner. My father also has a friend who has been doing Aikido for a while and claimed he watched him defend himself from a drunk quite skillfully. But if I am honest, you are putting yourself at a disadvantage nowadays if you choose to train in martial arts such as Aikido. This is because it trains through repetition, and though I am a traditionalist, it's simply a method of training that won't allow you to use Aikido for self-defense until you have dedicated yourself to it for a long time.

    In contrast, modern arts such as Boxing and Sambo, even though they're not necessarily made for self-defense, teach you things from your very first lesson that you can apply almost as soon you walk out of the lesson. Aikido has thousands of techniques - Boxing has 4 punches (with some slight variations) and 5 defenses at most. It also encourages sparring, and unless your school of aikido does too, you're already at a disadvantage compared to the average boxing gym.123
     

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