Is Akido worth learning? (Self Defense)

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Kajjustu, Mar 18, 2020.

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  1. Kajjustu

    Kajjustu White Belt

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    Hey all genuine question here!


    Firstly I am from a FMA/Boxing background. I have heard of Akido and was Intrested.

    How It all came about Is I searched how many styles does the Green Arrow/Batman the canary the DC comics and the regular show actually known they look at certain moves and try to conclude without doubt what styles they know.


    Anyways they showed a move and It said It was popular the moves he uses thier Is Akido and then showed something. It's widely believed Batman knows over 100 different types of Martial Arts and has trained for years and Is highly ranked In all of them. It's said he's familiar with any type of martial arts very non realistic I know!

    I read up about Akido and It's Intresting. It's known as the 'Martial Art Of Peace'. Uses minimal force and Is more peaceful and Is not designed for the aim to purely kill or break bones. Taekwondo and others for example have deadly kicks. You might be the smallest guy In the room but learning how to tornado kick especially to the head Is deadly. Hit someone In the right place and giving It a good kicking could cause some serious damage.

    From what I read Akido was designed more for self defense then Attacking Is about either playing dirty or doing whatever It takes to quickly end a confrontation It's not as brutal and offence orientated. That's why It has caught my attention I want to study Akido with other more lethal techniques/styles!

    As compare to boxing where you smash your opponent and just flat out attack them.

    Like I say boxing more of a attack/defend sort of fighting style Akido Is just do whatever It takes to really hurt them or put them on the ground or out them in some sort of vulnerable position get them out of action.

    I've seen a guy called Akido flow on youtube and he said you can either be dirty like Muay Thai Elbows Knees kicks ect, or just throw them down get behind them and tackle them to the ground or hold them In a lock. You can either be brutal or alot milder.


    I like the way you deflect and get around poeple In Akido and try to put them In lock or Immobilise them temporarily.

    It's not a martial designed to kill maim or break bones at first glance anyway.


    It's designed to put poeple down or defuse situations either using brutal techniques or softer ones. U can use a fist or slap them hard ect.

    The philosophy of Akido I don't think Is kill or hurt like the others. Karate, Wing Chun, Ninjustu, Taekwondo, Copiera, Muay Thai, Hapkido, and alot of others I think are alot more aggressive to them.


    I also think Akido with other styles Is effective to.


    Here's my question though, has anyone known anyone to effectively or yourself If your skilled In Akido has anyone used It? Or Is It just a **** style to learn altogether?


    I've talked to numerous poeple and read alot about Akido and loads of poeple look down upon It. Stuff like Akido Is a waste of time ect ect. It's useless this and that. I was told by someone yesterday who has street fighting experience (basically freestyle fighting learned off gypsies bareknuckle and abit of Karate/Wing Chun/Judo experience.) His main experience Is backstreet fighting and a few martial arts.


    He used to have fights regularly and drunken brawls for money and for fun. He said out of all the various arts he's done he said Akido was awful. But he's never said he's done akido lol contradictory or what!


    Now from what I've read the pro's and con's of Akido!

    Benefits:

    *Not designed purely to maim Injure or kill
    *Lots of mild grabs and locks that can stop fights by applying pressure and fancy moves to dodge them.

    *The way they move and flick someone over (tirae Marnargie) or whatever you call It.
    *good for fitness and footwork
    *learning anything will help against an untrained attacker.


    Cons:

    *I've heard most of the philosophy Is about causing as little permanent damage as possible so It's not designed to be lethal and deadly. This Is why I think loads of poeple bash Akido.

    I think it's more designed to put poeple down or give them a few painful injurys and then put them in locks If you wanted to. It's not designed to be bone crushing and lethal like Mauy Thai or taekwondo Is . It can be lethal If you want to add elbows and kicks and punches to sensitive parts you can do some damage. I think most Akido experts only use brutal techniques against poeple who are dangerous carry knives, ect then they just go full out kicks to kneecaps kick to the balls bone crushing blows ect. For milder opponents just put them in locks or twist limbs until they no longer a threat minimal damage martial art techniques ect.

    *Most effective techniques I've heard take a few years to master properly and actually use. Basically to be able to use Akido to It's full potential have a wide range of sparring partners and do It for atleast a few years.


    And that's It.......



    So has Akido helped you against armed Asilants?

    Has Akido helped you against any street thugs?


    And Is Akido effective In general?


    Do you regret taking Akido classes?





    And PS: I know any martial art If well trained and a good fighter and good techniques and form are used It can be deadly. Someone I know who Is highly skilled In 3 types of Kung Fu said Thai Chi (thai-cheee) for example poeple think It's more like yoga lol. But he said It's an actual art depends on how you apply It. If trained In a combat way and you use It In a offensive way and you practice and spar alot you are actually leaning a martial art just they don't usually spare and It's seen as more of a relaxing technique.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  2. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Is this who I think it is?
     
  3. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Most likely no.
     
  4. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    What you are describing is wrestling. Exept it doesn't really have the cons you were concerned about.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That's a lot of text. The answer (ignoring the entire bit about Batman's fictional history, which is both entirely impossible and entirely irrelevant) is that it depends how it is taught and trained. The "peaceful art" approach, IMO, isn't very effective for self-defense, and that doesn't seem to be an issue for practitioners (who are focused on the peaceful self-development it engenders). If there is a foundation behind it (good striking and grappling skills), the aiki principles make for interesting lifelong learning, and open up options less often found in other approaches.

    But it needs those basic skills (again, good striking and grappling) as a foundation. Without them, it seems to often turn into a pleasureable game with no losers. Which is fine for those looking for precisely that.
     
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  6. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

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    Not enough Brah, and too many vowls.
     
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  7. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge 2nd Black Belt

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    I know Batman.
    Batman is a friend of mine.
    You sir, are not Batman.
     
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  8. Gweilo

    Gweilo 2nd Black Belt

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    And I must say, thats a hell of a sidekick,shortbridge
     
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  9. ShortBridge

    ShortBridge 2nd Black Belt

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    He's actually pretty chill once you get past all that dark knight stuff. Terrible tipper, though. I always have to throw a little extra on the table when we go out.
     
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  10. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Loaded question...

    It really all boils down to how it is taught and trained. There are some schools that teach a more effective approach to Aikido and understanding its use and there are others heavily influenced by the philosophy that really only do compliant drills and wouldn't help you much if you are trying to use it as your main base for self-defense.

    Plus side is that due to it overall philosophy, many schools spend a lot of time understanding de-escalation techniques and stopping the fight before it gets physical. Their focus is on finding your own mental/emotional balance and controlling yourself and then working on the other person. They would view the conflict as the other person is out of balance and you are helping him to regain his emotional balance. The other person isn't viewed as an "attacker" or an "opponent" because you are both working towards the same goal.

    On the down side, many schools teach overly complex techniques that illustrate all of the concepts and principles of redirection etc. and forget to focus on the basic simple self-defense methods that would make it successful. For example, Sensei Gozo Shioda was challenged by a boxer who thought it was BS. The boxer pretty much cleaned the floor with his student and Sensei Shioda watched what the boxer would do. When Shioda faced the boxer, he immediately off angled to the outside and took the boxer out with an irimi-nage (think clothesline). The point is that, Shioda knew that the boxer's punches were not going to be over committed punches and he wasn't trying trap/catch/redirect one of them to apply a joint lock.He knew HOW to apply his martial art.

    Most of the early students of Ueshiba knew other martial arts so they had a foundation on proper distancing of attacks etc. So they could apply things. Other things like striking before applying is sometimes missing in Aikido schools, which according to Ueshiba, accounts for the large percentage of techniques and should be applied before the joint locks etc.

    In our city, one of the assistant instructors was the exact opposite of the brawler you described. He was a scrapper who got into a lot of fights and studied Aikido because the instructor was able to control/dominate him when challenged. Again, it will come down to each individual school and approach to what you will get.

    To put it another way, nobody would say that boxing is useless because those cardio boxing classes are so unrealistic and don't teach you how to fight. The problem with many martial arts (and Aikido) is that they are being taught like a "cardio class" that isn't really teaching you to fight, but they are saying that it does. It doesn't make the art bad, it makes the training methods and approach bad.
     
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  11. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

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    I have trained in four aikido dojos in three different federations and was never once taught de-escalation techniques. The other aikido practitioners that I know don't train them as well. What are the aikido groups that have de-escalation techniques as part of their regular curriculum?

    By the way, the technique used by Shioda against the boxer was a shiho nage, according to his book, Aikido Shugyo. :)

    To the original poster:

    So has Akido helped you against armed Asilants?

    I haven't been attacked with a weapon since I started training.

    Has Akido helped you against any street thugs?

    I've been able to grab and take the balance of aggressive/potentially dangerous people but I've not been in a "fight" since I started training.

    And Is Akido effective In general?

    As said above, it depends on how it is practiced. I feel that the aikido as practiced and promoted by the Aikikai Hombu Dojo (the central dojo that sends out the most teachers to give seminars, so basically the place that trains 90% of aikido teachers) has (purposefully) very little martial value. It's more like rythmic gymnastics. So, if you train at an Aikikai dojo, there's a high chance that your training will not add much to your fighting skills (unless your teacher is doing his own stuff). Other styles may have interesting stuff: Ki Society is great for conditioning, Yoshinkan and Iwama styles try their best to rigorously teach aikido principles and Shodokan/Tomiki has sparring.

    On that last point, most aikido dojos only do kata and exercises and don't spar, therefore if you want to learn to apply your aikido against resistance you will need a venue where you can spar, that's why taking up judo, sumo, wrestling, BJJ or MMA will help a lot.

    Do you regret taking Akido classes?

    Never once did I regret it: it makes my body and mind stronger and I really enjoy doing it.
     
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  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Excellent post.
     
  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Aikido guys like to control on the wrist joint. This will give their opponent's too much space to counter. The better clinch range should be either the elbow joint, or the shoulder/neck/waist joint.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Those get used, too.
     
  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Controlling the neck also protects their head when you throw a person. Which if your aim is non violence would avoid some embarrassing head spikes in concrete.
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Most grappling arts have wrist control as well.
     
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  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed. My view of Aikido (probably not the majority view, FWIW) is that it has exactly the same range of techniques as any other grappling system - it just focuses in a different area. I'm more Judo-y than most in the Aiki arts, so I'm more likely to work in close, and wrist/elbow techniques are what happen as they are trying to get back out.

    The Russian wrist snap (again, I think I'm remembering the name properly - you posted a video a year or so ago to introduce me to that one) is a great example of a wrist-length technique in wrestling.
     
  18. Budster

    Budster White Belt

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    I think you should forget about what everyone says about Aikido, and first determine what exactly you want to get out of studying Aikido (or any martial art for that matter). Then, observe several classes at as many Aikido Dojos as you can get to. As was stated, every Dojo teaches differently. Some are drastically different. Try to get past the whole "is <insert martial art here> useful in a street fight" mentality. It won't do you any good if that's one of your main motivations for studying. Because they are ALL useful... if studied/practiced with that intention.

    Instead, I suggest coming up with a short list of arts that you are naturally drawn to. Go to Dojos/gyms and observe as many classes as possible. You may find that an art you were once drawn to, actually isn't what you thought it was. Likewise, and this needs repeating, different Dojos/gyms can teach the same art drastically different from each other.

    Using my own journey for an example, I was naturally drawn to Karate, Aikido, Boxing, Chinese Kenpo, and Kung Fu. Aikido was not at the top of the list at first. And I started out pretty certain that I was going to take Karate or Kung Fu. For several months I observed countless classes at many gyms/Dojos. I asked questions there as well. Many MANY people were more than happy to chat with me about their art. The more I did this, the more I was drawn to Aikido and less to the others. In addition, I was very drawn to one Dojo in particular. Everything about their teaching and practicing the art was everything I wanted to get out of studying.

    There is nothing wrong with wanting to chose an art that will be useful in a real fight. But that should be more a part of your criteria when selecting a Dojo. I visited many that did not allow sparring/randori. And I personally believe that it would be counter-productive to study for that reason, at a place that doesn't let you practice. But this whole mentality about "martial art xyz is crap in a real fight" is... well... crap.

    You want me to show you 10 boxers that couldn't stand long in a street fight? Easy.
    You want me to show you 10 wing chun veterans that couldn't hold their own in a street fight? No problem.
    You want me to show you 10 street fighters than couldn't go 10 seconds with an Aikido expert? I can do that too.

    I think it was Evander Holyfield that said, "I touch gloves before the match, and after the match. Everything in between is strategy." The point here is that there is no magic bullet. You have to be in peak physical shape. You have to be in peak mental state. And you have to have taken all your training, turned it into instinct, and be able to call on it in a fraction of a second. Guess who is going to lose a fight between two fighters of different styles with ALL things being equal? The vast majority of the time the loser will be the first to make a mistake.
     
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  19. JP3

    JP3 Master Black Belt

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    Did anyone figure out if the O/P is a legit "new guy," or a agent provacateur?


    Quick response, and also ignoring Batman.... don't you know you've got to reference Daredevil for martial arts stuff?

    Yes, I'm aiki traned. Yes, I've had to use it "in anger." Yes, it worked. It didn't "look like" it looks when training it, and the results aren't pretty falls, but something way less graceful though.

    That being said, I agree with Gerry in that it really only becomes effective when you've got other basic skillsets in your bag. For me, TKD/HKD, judo and Muay Thai. So, what I do looks weird, doesn't really resemble aikido as taught by the Aikikai, so I don't know if people would call it "aikido" anymore. Aikujutsu, I think, with more eye-pokey things.
     
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  20. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Thanks for the correction on Shioda Sensei, I was trying to go from memory.

    The style of Aikido that I studied was Seidokan Aikido (Seidokan Aikido it's an old website, but gives some background). I studied under Sensei Mark Crapo and all of the Aikido priciples (like irimi and tenkan) were taught on how to apply that to everyday life and how to use it so you don't have to resort to physical means.123
     

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