inteview of tkd blackbelt

[The Kai]

Again just to make the issue clear this guy he is no Joe Lewis, Mike Stone. The only commonality is that they all recieved rank rather quickly, while some were limited to merely getting a shodan in the quick, others got alot higher in rank with a similiar stellar arc.

Todd

 

[The Kai]

shoot last one got away from me - Yes this guy might be all that, there are warning flags (at least to my rather untutored eyes)
todd

 

[The Kai]

I've seen demos by 5th 6th and 7th degrees. To be honest, if they were all mixed up and weren't wearing their belts, I would have been hard pressed to tell the difference.

That's nothing I'd advertise on the radio!

 

[John Bishop]

Who was this Kajukenbo renegade?

Actually he's in your area (Anaheim) teaching now. Greg Lagera. He's got a kids program called "Crazy Dragons".
I don't think AKJA was old enough to really know what was going on with his instructor and some of the seniors at the time. But those fences were mended a long time ago.
In fact I was witness to his promotion to 8th degree professor last september, so obviously he's not on the outs in Kajukenbo.

 

[Karazenpo]

I definitely see your point, Todd, and again, so that I'm clear, that was not my comparison. My point being that this argument has been going on for many decades with no end or final conclusion or let's say remedy insight so I've just moved on. I'm sure after all of us on this forum are dead and buried, they'll be new names but same debate will continue.......................Amen.

 

[Danjo]

It may be that the upper level Black Belts I saw weren't that good (though they seemed pretty good to me at the time), or maybe I am too unspophisticated to discerne the difference between a 5th, 6th and 7th degree in performance. Several people tell me that they weren't very impressed with Nick Cerio, though he seemed pretty good to me. Maybe I need greater exposure

 

[jfarnsworth]

Mod. Note.
Please, keep the conversation polite and respectful.

-Jason Farnsworth
-MT Moderator-

 

[Karazenpo]

It may be that the upper level Black Belts I saw weren't that good (though they seemed pretty good to me at the time), or maybe I am too unspophisticated to discerne the difference between a 5th, 6th and 7th degree in performance. Several people tell me that they weren't very impressed with Nick Cerio, though he seemed pretty good to me. Maybe I need greater exposure

Hey Danjo, I don't think you need greater exposure, just remember what they say about opinions......they're like ********, everybody has one!

 

[Karazenpo]

Joe,
I very humbly appreciate your kind words. You almost seem to know me I thats part of the reason why I hold you and your opinions is very high regards. The other reasons you already know. you "live them" everyday.
Respectfully, Your brother Jim :asian:

Thank you, Jim, Your brother, Joe

 

[James Kovacich]

Actually he's in your area (Anaheim) teaching now. Greg Lagera. He's got a kids program called "Crazy Dragons".
I don't think AKJA was old enough to really know what was going on with his instructor and some of the seniors at the time. But those fences were mended a long time ago.
In fact I was witness to his promotion to 8th degree professor last september, so obviously he's not on the outs in Kajukenbo.

You're right! I was young and Sifu was not that much older (6 years). As as it turns out he now is a few generations downline from one of those Seniors (RIP). :asian:

I'm glad you know of him and that he is doing well. do you know the name of his new school? I would think that Crazy Dragons would of been in the name, not in his kids program. I spoke to him just before the Visalia gathering and he wanted me to go and I regret not doing so but life is not always that easy.

About me, when I speak, I do speak the truth.

 

[USKS1]

AKJA,

Aloha,
I remember Professor Lagera and the crazy dragons.. They used to hit the local San Jose tournaments, and they were good fighters.. I used to live right around the corner from Sifu Steve Kantonemi's school when he was on Alum Rock ave. Right next to a bar called the "Dog House"... There's some stories right there, but not for this forum... LOL.

Also Richie Barrefield used to make a good show at the tournaments..

I heard the stories on Prof Greg, but you know what, like Sigung John said, the fences have been mended.. But 1 thing you could say about the crazy dragons, is that they came to fight..

Anyway, just wanted to say hi.. Looks like we may have run in some of the same circles.

Take care

Dean.

 

[Karazenpo]

Count Dante was'nt really flamboyant, I think he was more likely to be called outrageous. He advocated training is sweats with tennis shoes on. street cloths. He stated in a magazine that a boxer was better trained to win a street fight. He felt the "ritual of Kata" over took the conditioning aspects of the arts. For a Non Chinese to make these sytaemets in the early 70's - outrageous.
One of Count dante's "things" was to go into a bar on the south side of chicago and basically pick a fight - Scandeleous.
My teacher's teacher met Count Dante, basically summed it up "A cracked egg, but mastered the physicl art"
Todd

Todd, now don't jump on me for this one but.............lol. Here goes, yup, the old Count was definitely 99 cents short of a dollar but let's just think about a few of his way out concepts and his 'rationale' behind them, ya, believe it or not, in some ways there was a method to his madness.

Street clothes in training, I agree. You don't have to have it as the norm but it should be part of the program. This is the standard that police training stresses around the world. Whenever you go to the range, do your tactical, do your defensive tactics, the rule of thumb is you dress how you dress on your tour of duty. Whatever your uniform of the day is the majority of the time is what you train in, make sense to me! I haven't mixed it up for real in a gi yet.

Okay, boxers? my community was a boxing town before any martial arts exposure and I knew several and I did a little bit prior to my kempo days. One thing you can count on with a boxer in a street situation is his reaction to a punch in the nose is a punch back! That's a given. You also know he can take it as well as dish it out. A measure of a person's toughness is not how much they can dish out but how much they can take. Let's also not forget the physical conditining required to box. Go back to the life and times of John Keehan. 'Point' karate. Remember a point champ by the name of Everet 'Monster Man' Eddy? Truly a monster (size) of a man but couldn't make the transition into what was called in 1974 full contact karate due to a glass jaw? Unlike boxing, you can't always count on karate people, especially back in Keehan's day.

No, you can't go picking fights in bars although look at Chow and Emperado's group back in the old red light districts of Hawaii but agreed, that was then, this is now. However, he allowed drinking and smoking in his dojo and it sounded completely ludicrious then, still is, I wouldn't do it but look at his reasoning. Where did the term barroom brawl come from? I can tell you as a cop that where there's booze, guys and girls there are fights. His rationale, to quote Detective Harry Callahan in Magnum Force is 'a good man should no his limitations, so drink a six pack or two and a couple of shots and see how good you are now. Todd, on some issues he was ahead of his time and and I agree with your instructors analysis:"A cracked egg, but mastered the physical art" and If I may add, he knew a lot about reality fighting.

 

[The Kai]

I also remember seeing a picture where the inside of his dojo lookes like a alley, not cleaned up movie garbage, but real junk! I though maybe I did'nt remember right but it would fit in with your recollections. Also, realize that his work out cloths were the old grey sweats and chuck taylor high top sneaks (lloked kinda funny). Whether he was that good or that willing to fight, Count still is remembered in the windy city!.

Funny, you never hear the phrase "Things got better when we started drinking"
Take Care
Todd

 

[James Kovacich]

AKJA,

Aloha,
I remember Professor Lagera and the crazy dragons.. They used to hit the local San Jose tournaments, and they were good fighters.. I used to live right around the corner from Sifu Steve Kantonemi's school when he was on Alum Rock ave. Right next to a bar called the "Dog House"... There's some stories right there, but not for this forum... LOL.

Also Richie Barrefield used to make a good show at the tournaments..

I heard the stories on Prof Greg, but you know what, like Sigung John said, the fences have been mended.. But 1 thing you could say about the crazy dragons, is that they came to fight..

Anyway, just wanted to say hi.. Looks like we may have run in some of the same circles.

Take care

Dean.

Yea, I know the doghouse. Not far there, theres another Kaju school thats been there for a very long time (corner of Alum Rock & White). Don't know him but I always wanted to peek in. I've heard a lot of stories myself but the best one is my own. My brother-in-law helped me "see another light" through the martial arts and he will always get that credit no matter how our family is. When I left him I went looking for Greg and as it turned out many years later he found me.

You're in Hawaii now? My mothers first cousin was born,raised and still resides in Hawaii and is half Chinese. I should see if any of them are martial artists.

I'm better with faces than names but I run into a lot of the guys from back in the day. Especcially when I used to work out in Golds Gym.
Take care

 

[Danjo]

I also remember seeing a picture where the inside of his dojo lookes like a alley, not cleaned up movie garbage, but real junk! I though maybe I did'nt remember right but it would fit in with your recollections. Also, realize that his work out cloths were the old grey sweats and chuck taylor high top sneaks (lloked kinda funny). Whether he was that good or that willing to fight, Count still is remembered in the windy city!.

Funny, you never hear the phrase "Things got better when we started drinking"
Take Care
Todd

He also liked to use combinations, ala Kenpo/Kempo called "Defensive Forms" one called the Dance of Death (no relation to the Parker form I'm told). He would challenge martial artist interviewers to fight him before an interview if they came with any doubts according to Black Belt Journalist Massad Ayoob. (sorry for going off topic with this stuff).

 

[James Kovacich]

I also remember seeing a picture where the inside of his dojo lookes like a alley, not cleaned up movie garbage, but real junk! I though maybe I did'nt remember right but it would fit in with your recollections. Also, realize that his work out cloths were the old grey sweats and chuck taylor high top sneaks (lloked kinda funny). Whether he was that good or that willing to fight, Count still is remembered in the windy city!.

Funny, you never hear the phrase "Things got better when we started drinking"
Take Care
Todd

I remember Count Dante too. Can't forget the cover he did for one of the mags. with his red sweatshirt (I think it read something like black dragon fighting society) and I think Gung Fu pants. HE WAS A RENEGADE. Some have tried to tie him to the Oakland JKD school but I don't think so.

 

[Karazenpo]

He also liked to use combinations, ala Kenpo/Kempo called "Defensive Forms" one called the Dance of Death (no relation to the Parker form I'm told). He would challenge martial artist interviewers to fight him before an interview if they came with any doubts according to Black Belt Journalist Massad Ayoob. (sorry for going off topic with this stuff).

Hey Danjo, yeah, I remember something like that only Dance of Death in Parker's Kenpo is a technique and as a matter of fact Nick Cerio's Kenpo has a technique called Dance of Death also but it was inspired by your #2 combination, an original Karazenpo technique. Keehan's (Count Dante) coming from Robert Trias must have been influenced by Okinawan Shorei ryu's Naihanchi ( Dance of Death) shodan kata, Trias later referred to his style as Shuri-Te. Kajukenbo also has a form (not technique) based on Naihanchi shodan. Almost forgot, Mitose had his Naihanchi form too from Okinawan karate.

 

[USKS1]

Yea, I know the doghouse. Not far there, theres another Kaju school thats been there for a very long time (corner of Alum Rock & White). Don't know him but I always wanted to peek in. I've heard a lot of stories myself but the best one is my own. My brother-in-law helped me "see another light" through the martial arts and he will always get that credit no matter how our family is. When I left him I went looking for Greg and as it turned out many years later he found me.

You're in Hawaii now? My mothers first cousin was born,raised and still resides in Hawaii and is half Chinese. I should see if any of them are martial artists.

I'm better with faces than names but I run into a lot of the guys from back in the day. Especcially when I used to work out in Golds Gym.
Take care

I hear ya... The school on Alum Rock & White is Tony Kattengils school. I trained at Sigung Brian Yoshii's school in Santa Clara.

Not in Hawaii, I am in Texas, moved out here about 10-11 years ago.

Maybe we will cross paths sometime.. Take care

Dean.

 

[James Kovacich]

I hear ya... The school on Alum Rock & White is Tony Kattengils school. I trained at Sigung Brian Yoshii's school in Santa Clara.

Not in Hawaii, I am in Texas, moved out here about 10-11 years ago.

Maybe we will cross paths sometime.. Take care

Dean.

Yes, we may. My wifes family is from Texas, half are still there and my father-in-law is coming home (to San Jose) from San Antonio this week. Ther are always asking when we are going to visit too.

 

[Michael Billings]

This thread has drifted way off course. Please, keep the conversation on topic or start a new thread re: the current dialogue.

Thanks,
-Michael Billings
-MT S-Moderator