Internal arts and celibacy?

[JadecloudAlchemist]

[QUOTEJadeCloudAlchemist, could you explain the whole "becoming semen" thing? What does that mean? When is semen not semen?][/QUOTE]It works like this so we can clarfiy.
Jing means your essence(or can simply means essence of something)
You are given a set amount of Prenatal Jing. When you ejaculate for let us say the sake of procreation the Jing becomes transformed into semen.
For a nice article on Jing you can check on Wikipedia.

Btw, the only ways i know to stop yr menstural cycle is to put it under extreme stress through fasting, physical exercise or mental stress. I wouldn't have thought that any of that was particuly conducive to long-term health. Or go on the pill i guess!

Hey, if a woman did go on the pill, would that have the same benifits to her qi as doing this "internal ejaculation" thing?

Actually there is a safer method of stopping it
but that requires instuction from a teacher. The pill prevents you from becoming pregnant it does not prevent your menstrual cycle and again woman do not loose Jing thru sex they can loose Qi from sex but not Jing.
There are many ways a person can loose Jing ejaculation for men is the main reason. You do not have to give up sex. This is a point of confusion. However it is important to not have it during the first 100 days.
Once you have built a foundation then you can engage in sexual acts because you would have known how to control your 3 treasures.
I can go on and on about this because the topic and teaching is alot.
So I will simply say this and let all other concern or question be addressed in private. If you have a good teacher than he knows what is the correct path for you and how far along he can take you on that.
Nuff said.

 

[tellner]

Frankly, Jade, a lot of it is weird, ignorant, pre-scientific, ignorant superstition. That's not to fault the people who came up with it. They were at the cutting edge in their day. Now we know infinitely more about the human body. "It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism. The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.

We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Frankly, Jade, a lot of it is weird, ignorant, pre-scientific, ignorant superstition. That's not to fault the people who came up with it. They were at the cutting edge in their day. Now we know infinitely more about the human body. "It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism. The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.

We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.

TCM OMDs from Beijing University are also trained in Western Medicine. I am not qualified to really discuss any of this, that would be my wife, but she thinks posting on a web page is a bit weird so it is not likely she would respond at all.

However much of what you are talking about is used in diagnostics and they do know what the organs really do.

Also my Taiji sifu is a Trained TCM guy from the old school in Southern China (basically he followed a Sifu for years) and he is an MD here in the US and he still talks about the stuff you mentioned in relation to TCM.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I also should add

TCM Docs in Beijing today recognize the fact that there are cases where you need an antibiotic, X-rays and Lab tests and they prescribe them too. There are also certain things they realize Western Medicine handles better and Western Docs there realize that there are some things that TCM is better at and they work very well together.

 

[qi-tah]

Actually there is a safer method of stopping it
but that requires instuction from a teacher. The pill prevents you from becoming pregnant it does not prevent your menstrual cycle and again woman do not loose Jing thru sex they can loose Qi from sex but not Jing.

You are obviously not conversant with the way most women use the pill... the sugar pills are skipped and they just stay continually on the hormone pills, thus preventing menstruation. Actually i'm actually finding your language rather difficult to follow, for instance in your previous post it wasn't clear what exactly was "becoming semen", i assumed you meant ejaculate. You can understand my confusion!

I don't know that any system is perfect, either Western medicine or TCM. Really, i guess you just have to go with what works. The benifits of acupuncture, Tui na and herbs i can understand. I can look at the senior students in my school and see the benifits of practicing Ba gua, not to mention feel them in my body. A system that demands significant sacrifices over an extended period of time for an uncertain gain is not, however, something that i am likely to try.

 

[tellner]

Xue Sheng: Absolutely. TCM certainly has value. And the Chinese medical schools turn out excellent doctors who are skilled in both Chinese and Western medicine. You just have to be careful not to take thousand year old explanations of physiology any more seriously than you would the four humors, non-circulating blood and Galen's Amazing Detachable Uterus. At best they're analogies.

 

[qi-tah]

Hey JadeCloudAlchemist; do you practice these Taoist sexual exercises to preserve your Jing etc? If so, i'd be really interested to hear about what you feel you have gained from such exercises and how important you feel that they are as a part of your overall Qi gong practice.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng: Absolutely. TCM certainly has value. And the Chinese medical schools turn out excellent doctors who are skilled in both Chinese and Western medicine. You just have to be careful not to take thousand year old explanations of physiology any more seriously than you would the four humors, non-circulating blood and Galen's Amazing Detachable Uterus. At best they're analogies.

OH and I suppose the NEXT Thing you'll try and tell me is that there are more elements than Metal, Water, Wood, Fire and Earth :uhyeah:

But to be serious for a moment, I agree with what you posted

A short, off topic side story and then I am done.

I told my wife that when TCM first came to America just a about every MD said TCM was worthless garbage. She said that is interesting because when Western Medicine came to China, just about every TCM Doc said Western Medicine was Worthless Garbage as well.

 

[oxy]

"It takes forty days and forty drops of blood to make one drop of semen"? No. It takes about a day and a half and doesn't put any real sort of load on the metabolism.

I remember some people interpreting this as having been originated as a "scare tactic" used by the conservative people of that time to curb sexual activity. Did Chinese doctors believe this stuff about 40 drops of blood back then? A lot of them probably did, but their predecessors probably understood it as propaganda (see below).

The innaccuracies of TCM physiology would fill volumes. The spleen is not the governing organ. Ejaculation does not drain you metabolically. The kidney and pericardium do not do what is claimed. There is no organ known as the triple heater. And so on. And on.

That may be true, but the principle of TCM's focus on organ health seems to be overlooked in Western Medicine, just as bacterial and viral causes seem to be overlooked in TCM.

TCMedicines are theoretically more gentle on the organs than western refined chemical medicines. I say theoretically because using the wrong TCMedicines can cause serious damage as well (and is a lot more common than the "advertisements" say). TCMedicines are largely ineffective against the more resistant bacteria and viruses (things like hospital superbugs and HIV, obviously). Although it must be said that the Chinese were successfully vaccinating against smallpox (albeit using the wrong medicine theories) long before it was discovered in Europe.

Anyway, conversely, western medicines of a refined chemical nature do a lot of damage to bad bacteria etc, but also harm normal cells more.

As I understand it, a lot of TCM herbal remedies consist largely of herbs that softens the blow to the stomach and kidneys (and sometimes liver) from the other part of the mixture. Makes sense since TCM herbal mixtures are taken orally and bypasses the stomach first and then mostly through the kidneys. Hence, only a relatively minor amount of the useful medicine is absorbed where it needs to be. The rest goes through to the kidney which is forced to suffer the side effects if none of the other herbs are added.

We didn't know better then. We do now. It really is as simple as that.

You also have to understand that the reason why a lot of medicines, from the East or West, fails is that patients are inherently stupid.

It was almost necessary that physicians (from older China) was taught to give "over the top" reasons to patients in the hopes of scaring them into following advice directly. It didn't help that certain dynastic laws held that execution was a suitable punishment for doctors who failed to cure a patient. Western medicine doctors suffer from the ignorant patients as well.

These stupid patients are largely those who fancy themselves as knowing enough about medicine to convince themselves that what they do (in the face of professional advice) will be all right. I have read the testimonies of many "converts" to TCM and the conclusion I have reached is that a lot of them were too stupid to follow good advice (like eating right, exercising regularly and challenging your mind) and after their fear of mortality kicked in, they finally decided to follow advice incidentally after switching to alternative medicines.

This is not to put down real situations where TCM was able to cure illnesses that western medicine couldn't.

Maybe we do know more now, but people are just as comparatively stupid.

 

[Nobody]

The people i know from China told me the medical schools over there are so intense that the student have the highest suicide rate in China. The medical schools are very intense over there. This is not to say that Allopathy(conventional medicine) in America is easy.

On topic now, yea not sure if celibacy all the time was what they meant maybe like all boxer do to day just for 8 weeks prior to the fight. At least Mayweathers said something to this on Tonight show.

Also, i think most of those old saying an ideas by the TCM was more to be describe of the idea an to build a method for understanding at that time in history you know mans need to explain his world an all. Just cause you do not get it does not mean that they did not know what the organ was or what they looked like after all the first known forms of surgery was done in China an on the Emperor they would remove the organs while he was at a certain age and wash them. Soft tissue surgery is what i mean. That we know there was allot of brain surgery from the bones left behind from the past in many different areas of the world not just China.

Personally i think that both medicine have a place. They can work good for certain thing in both cases.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The people i know from China told me the medical schools over there are so intense that the student have the highest suicide rate in China. The medical schools are very intense over there. This is not to say that Allopathy(conventional medicine) in America is easy.

My wife graduated from one of those and there were no suicides, one kid did get a syndrome from to much Qi training but no suicides. But that is only one school (Beijing University of Traditional Chinese Medicine - supposedly the best in China) I have no idea what it is like in any others.

However you are correct the curriculum that she went through for just her undergrad - our equivalent Bachelors degree was evaluated at slightly over a master’s degree here by the federal government.

 

[tellner]

This is China we're talking about, right? A three thousand year tradition of competitive examinations for everything? Thought so...

Seriously, my wife left high school a year or two early when her family moved back to the States from Tanzania. On the basis of that she essentially skipped the first year of a very rigorous American college.

 

[Xue Sheng]

This is China we're talking about, right? A three thousand year tradition of competitive examinations for everything? Thought so...

Seriously, my wife left high school a year or two early when her family moved back to the States from Tanzania. On the basis of that she essentially skipped the first year of a very rigorous American college.

Maybe they confused it with Japan, the suicide rate there is climbing, but that is mostly due to pressure in High School not College.

 

[Nobody]

Let me try to remember what she said in combine English an Chinese(Mandarin). I was not totally sure what she said do to my newness to hearing Mandarin, but i had studied for some time it is different than hearing it. She did say there was a lot people that end up dropping out an something about what i thought was suicide. It was probably my misunderstanding her than.

O, yea the thing i liked about her was that she an her husband had been in America for about 10 years and her English was just moderate to bad.

Yea i have heard that to about the completion of there degree in China.

Xue Sheng so yea i might have got that wrong.

I do think that at one time America lead the world in education in the primary schools but as we seem to progress scenes about 1980 we now seem to be falling way behind.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng so yea i might have got that wrong.

No biggie, I can't tell you how many times I have misinterpreted my wife and her English is rather good.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Here is the theory: When you perform a sexual act and ejaculate your Jing or essence transform into its state known as semen. You are suppose to for 100 days of training not engage in acts of loosing your Jing this in theory will build the foundation for culitvation of Qi. Now this does not mean giving up sex which is a common misunderstanding it simply means do not loose your Jing. Jing also leaks out thru the Ming men even more so in cold weather hence sick people sometimes wear a special wrap around the Tan tien and Ming men. to answer your question on number#1 I have no idea how many nor how many have guys practicing ways to be immortal together with plugs in their anus and someone pinching their spine as Charles Luk describes. To answer your question for number#2 Woman are a little bit different they do not loose Jing the same way a male does in reference to sex that is. A woman recieves Jing that is how a baby is born. Should a woman not engage in sexual acts to perform what you said in your post? I would say yes if you are trying do this exercise regardless it still takes 100 days. Now this 100 days I refer to is building the foundation and opening the small heavenly circuit if you perform this correctly you should have control of when your Jing leaves thru sexual acts. By all means you can still open the circuit without going thru the 100 days process it is not impossible but it will not lead to higher stages of culitvations and may take longer to accomplish.

This is the metaphysical explaination. Here's the creepy part. There is a physical reason to be celibate/monogamous. When you (in refernce to guys) ejaculate you lose semen. Semen has a lot of vitamins your body could be useing for other things. Which is the general excuse science nerds give for not having a girl freind. I kid, I kid. It's creepy though what you can learn from a book on Tai Chi.
Part of this (going back to metaphysics) is it also shows your devotion. Catholic preists aren't supposed to have sex to show ther devotion to God. Same theory behind Lent.

 

[pstarr]

Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training- After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training- After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...

I generally find I fully agree with you but on this I am not.

Of course I am only basing this on me and I do not have a group of students to compare. When I tried celibacy I found I was less focused and it was CONSIDERABLY more difficult to relax and concentrate on anything. I will add the only time I can say that I had more difficulty with focus was at the beginning of relationships. But in general celibacy was not of benefit to me for the study of qigong or Taiji. But again I am only talking about me.

 

[pstarr]

Of course, we have a lot of fun with the students trying it for the first time...seems like once they start, available females suddenly appear...! One poor fellow made it 68 days and then had a nocturnal emission!

I think it's a subject that's not well understood...I tell the students that after they've been married for some time, such lengthy "dry times" are really normal! :uhyeah:

 

[qi-tah]

Hello pstarr

Yep - I stil make my students practice the 100 day abstinence during the beginning of qigong training- After many years of comparing those who did vs. those who didn't, I have to say that the intrinsic force of those who did undergo the abstinence was much stronger...

If you don't mind me asking, i would like to know what you mean by "intrinsic force" - is that like overall health, or thier ability to do certain exercises, or some other external measure?
Also, do you have female students? If so, how does the abstinence thing work for them, since they don't ejaculate? I know all about the "getting jing" theory for women during hetero sex, but what about lesbians? Is being a lesbian in Taoist theory the equivilent to being a lifelong celibate?? (ie. Nothing gained, nothing lost through sex)

Be interested to hear yr thoughts.