Internal arts and celibacy?

[qi-tah]

Hi all;

i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts?

2) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no.

Interested to hear yr comments.

 

[tshadowchaser]

answere to number 1 NOT ME by any means

 

[Tames D]

1) Not in this lifetime.
2) Don't know the anwser to this one.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi all;

i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts?

2) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no.

Interested to hear yr comments.

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts? - don't know, don't care and I never asked them

2a) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? - See my answer to #1

2b) Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no. - Are they Monks?


Internal Martial arts come from Taoist roots.

Taoists have for a very long time had training for sexual practices in order to maintain energy. That does not sound like they have been practicing celibacy to me.

Also there are 2 major sects of Taoism in China today, one practices celibacy and the other doesn't.

Celibacy is not necessary to do anything in Internal CMA. Look at the Internal CMA masters of the past. They generally had rather large families. Where do you think these family lineages come from if they all practice celibacy?

 

[mrhnau]

I'm waiting for others to jump in and talk about the immorality of celibacy now.

 

[qi-tah]

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts? - don't know, don't care and I never asked them

2a) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? - See my answer to #1

2b) Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no. - Are they Monks?


Internal Martial arts come from Taoist roots.

Taoists have for a very long time had training for sexual practices in order to maintain energy. That does not sound like they have been practicing celibacy to me.

Also there are 2 major sects of Taoism in China today, one practices celibacy and the other doesn't.

Celibacy is not necessary to do anything in Internal CMA. Look at the Internal CMA masters of the past. They generally had rather large families. Where do you think these family lineages come from if they all practice celibacy?

Ok, so maybe all the stuff i've been hearing has come (ultimately and no, i haven't been speaking to any monks - ascetics, but not monks) from the sect that does practice celibacy? And i guess one could still practice celibacy for long periods and then "resurface" for a bit to get the missus up the spout again. Ack... i don't know... and yr right, if it's not practical then it hardly bears thinking about! Twas just casually interested, that's all.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And i guess one could still practice celibacy for long periods and then "resurface" for a bit to get the missus up the spout again. Ack... i don't know... and yr right, if it's not practical then it hardly bears thinking about! Twas just casually interested, that's all.

Actually that would be monogamy, not celibacy.

I have kids, my Taiji sifu has kids, his Taiji sifu (Tung) had kids and his sifu's sifu (Yang) had kids. Hell the Chen family is into the 20th and I believe the 21st generations now. Xingyi, Bagua, yiquan all the same just about all I know or read about have kids.

If you choose to practice celibacy that is your choice and there is nothing wrong with it, but it is not required to train internal CMA nor is it required to be good at internal CMA.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Hi all;

i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts?

2) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no

Here is the theory: When you perform a sexual act and ejaculate your Jing or essence transform into its state known as semen. You are suppose to for 100 days of training not engage in acts of loosing your Jing this in theory will build the foundation for culitvation of Qi. Now this does not mean giving up sex which is a common misunderstanding it simply means do not loose your Jing. Jing also leaks out thru the Ming men even more so in cold weather hence sick people sometimes wear a special wrap around the Tan tien and Ming men. to answer your question on number#1 I have no idea how many nor how many have guys practicing ways to be immortal together with plugs in their anus and someone pinching their spine as Charles Luk describes. To answer your question for number#2 Woman are a little bit different they do not loose Jing the same way a male does in reference to sex that is. A woman recieves Jing that is how a baby is born. Should a woman not engage in sexual acts to perform what you said in your post? I would say yes if you are trying do this exercise regardless it still takes 100 days. Now this 100 days I refer to is building the foundation and opening the small heavenly circuit if you perform this correctly you should have control of when your Jing leaves thru sexual acts. By all means you can still open the circuit without going thru the 100 days process it is not impossible but it will not lead to higher stages of culitvations and may take longer to accomplish.

 

[seasoned]

I think I will stick to the old fashion way, kicks and punches. Ba Gua walking sounds like it may not be for me.

 

[oddball]

Well - are there any physical advantages to celibacy? Like I've heard people don't feel as much pain?
Or also social advantages - like having no life outside of training?

 

[lhommedieu]

I'm reminded of the quote from Augustan: "Oh Lord, make me chaste - but not yet!"

In Taoist health practices a man should ejaculate less frequently as he gets older. This is in keeping with what has been said about Jing (essence) above. What "less frequently" means depends upon how you define "frequently" of course - but generally it is tied into seven year cosmological cycles.

Women do not lose Jing when they orgasm but lose Qi and Blood due to their menstrual cycle. There was a famous Chinese princess who is said to have lived past 130 due to her practice of Taoist sexual practices involving multiple younger partners. But that is another story...

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Steel Tiger]

Hi all;

i'm a bit confused on this score - i've heard a bit about how, in order to open the "small heavenly circle" and strengthen your qi in ba gua walking, you must remain celibate for years, or at least not have sex more than once every couple of months. Apparently this requirement becomes even more important when you start practice walking the "lower basin", as it is a very taxing exercise. My questions are as follows:

1) How many ppl here follow these precepts?

2) Is the ban on sex the same for men and women? Some people i've spoken to to say yes, others no.

Interested to hear yr comments.

Personally, I think that Daoist ascetic practices are a bit crazy and probably dangerous. Remember these were created by people so afraid of dying they would try anything.

As for your questions.
My teacher tried some of the celibacy practices for a while, but found that they were painful and uncomfortable so he stopped. I haven't tried any (internal ejaculation is not for me).

Men and women work differently in terms of Qi and Jin. So it is very likely that the processes of celibacy practices would work differently.

 

[qi-tah]

Personally, I think that Daoist ascetic practices are a bit crazy and probably dangerous. Remember these were created by people so afraid of dying they would try anything.

As for your questions.
My teacher tried some of the celibacy practices for a while, but found that they were painful and uncomfortable so he stopped. I haven't tried any (internal ejaculation is not for me).

Men and women work differently in terms of Qi and Jin. So it is very likely that the processes of celibacy practices would work differently.

Internal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male! Ok, so the theory is that blokes lose jing in their sperm and chicks lose qi in their menstural blood... I guess the common factor behind these two events is that fluids come out of the body, ie. a visible event. So it has to be related to the biological cost of replacing that fluid. It can't be related to the loss of genetic material otherwise post-menopausal women would be stuffed. But what about the electrical disturbance of orgasm itself? Wouldn't that bugger about with yr qi, regardless of any fluid loss? Or is that seen as immaterial?

One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the month instead.

 

[Steel Tiger]

One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the month instead.

Now you've got something of an idea about internal ejaculation. So as to not lose vital Jin, semen is diverted into the bladder (OUCH!!). But when you think about it the fluids supposedly saved will simply be expelled through urination. Remember the guys who invented this stuff were in fear of their lives, and thus a little crazy, I think.

 

[tellner]

Internal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male!

Today it is known as retrograde ejaculation. The ejaculate travels up the urethra into the bladder. It is routine for men who have had prostatectomies.

A lot of the pre-scientific Taoist physiology is a little wierd. It was based on ideas of physiology that are not consistent with what we now know about the physical sciences. Much of the rest is analogy and metaphor. And there's a big sprinkling of plain human craziness. Human beings are nuts, and there's nowhere that it comes out more than in anything related to sex.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

nternal ejaculation?? What the hell is that... that *sounds* painful and i'm not even male! Ok, so the theory is that blokes lose jing in their sperm and chicks lose qi in their menstural blood... I guess the common factor behind these two events is that fluids come out of the body, ie. a visible event. So it has to be related to the biological cost of replacing that fluid. It can't be related to the loss of genetic material otherwise post-menopausal women would be stuffed. But what about the electrical disturbance of orgasm itself? Wouldn't that bugger about with yr qi, regardless of any fluid loss? Or is that seen as immaterial?

You loose Jing and Qi other ways as well. You have both Prenatal and Post natal Jing you can replace Post but you can not replace Prenatal.
An Orgasam does not disturb your Qi in fact I would think it enhances it since it allows the mind to be one of its highest peaks.

One aquaintance of mine mentioned something about some Taoist women's thing called "turning back the blood" to stop mentruration... i didn't ask what it was but yr right, it all sounds rather extreme. I mean, why not just eat a bit more protein at that time of the

month instead.

Yes you can stop the mentrual cycle same as ejaculation.
eating more protein doesn't really do anything. Is it really

extreme? If you choose to live a life dedicated to developing this it is similar to any other religious or spiritual practice.

semen is diverted into the bladder (OUCH!!). But when you think about it the fluids supposedly saved will simply be expelled through urination. Remember the guys who invented this stuff were in fear of their lives, and thus a little crazy, I think.

Once you feel the moment of ejaculation and you try to use the "Million dollar point" you are already to late it has already become Semen
thus leaking down and when you try to channel it back it is already in its refined substance thus leading back into the bladder instead of performing correct practice and not letting it become Semen does it go back to correct path. Taoist being affraid of their life I think is an unfair comment and Buddhist also practices similar exercises. It is not about avoiding Death remember there are many levels of what Taoist refer to as "Immortal".

lot of the pre-scientific Taoist physiology is a little wierd. It was based on ideas of physiology that are not consistent with what we now know about the physical sciences. Much of the rest is analogy and metaphor. And there's a big sprinkling of plain human craziness. Human beings are nuts, and there's nowhere that it comes out more than in anything related to sex.

Is this in reference towards how Organs lay? What makes it weird? Perhaps your view point of weird is
actually logical and not so out of the ordinary. Does ingesting Jade and Mercury mean your crazy in today's world yes but in those days it seemed logical and if a person was of unintelligent wits they may think the same
hence why so many think they can touch Mercury.

 

[MaartenSFS]

First of all... Interesting question.

I have a small point to add to what was already said, about Chinese people and celebacy. They dont exactly go hand in hand. China has 1.3 billion people (I can hear them all day and even scurrying in the night, like rats - what ARE they doing? Mostly construction). They didn't get here by virgin birth!

That said, a recent survey showed that Chinese people are the least satisfied with their sex life. Everybody in China that is able will try to procreate. Why? Because retirement is usually death and pensions are unheard of. They need children to take care of them when they are olde. It's sometimes sickening how dependent parents can become on their children. The parents' and childrens' perfect life would be to live together for all eternity in one big house *GAG*. I'm trying to hash a plan to keep my wife's parents at bay (But with good livings standards) when they are olde.

Anyways, Chinese people do not practise celibacy, especially when they want sons to take care of them and continue the family legacy, et cetera. If anything, they want to have more. Thank God they are alloted ye one. 再见

 

[qi-tah]

First of all... Interesting question.

I have a small point to add to what was already said, about Chinese people and celebacy. They dont exactly go hand in hand. China has 1.3 billion people (I can hear them all day and even scurrying in the night, like rats - what ARE they doing? Mostly construction). They didn't get here by virgin birth!

That said, a recent survey showed that Chinese people are the least satisfied with their sex life. Everybody in China that is able will try to procreate. Why? Because retirement is usually death and pensions are unheard of. They need children to take care of them when they are olde. It's sometimes sickening how dependent parents can become on their children. The parents' and childrens' perfect life would be to live together for all eternity in one big house *GAG*. I'm trying to hash a plan to keep my wife's parents at bay (But with good livings standards) when they are olde.

Anyways, Chinese people do not practise celibacy, especially when they want sons to take care of them and continue the family legacy, et cetera. If anything, they want to have more. Thank God they are alloted ye one. 再见

When i was talking about celibacy i wasn't really talking about a lifelong commitment to not having sex... more along the lines of voluntary celibacy for a defined period of time (in order to achieve some goal), kind of analogous to the word monogamy in the term "serial monogamy". Doesn't take much to get someone up the duff and if that's all sex in China is seen as good for then i can see why their satisfaction rating is so low! :erg:

JadeCloudAlchemist, could you explain the whole "becoming semen" thing? What does that mean? When is semen not semen?
Btw, the only ways i know to stop yr menstural cycle is to put it under extreme stress through fasting, physical exercise or mental stress. I wouldn't have thought that any of that was particuly conducive to long-term health. Or go on the pill i guess!

Hey, if a woman did go on the pill, would that have the same benifits to her qi as doing this "internal ejaculation" thing?

 

[qi-tah]

Don't know anything about any "highest peaks". Lying in the gutter, staring at the stars maybe! (apologies to Oscar Wilde)

 

[Xue Sheng]

Because retirement is usually death and pensions are unheard of.

Unless of course they are highly educated then retirement is between 55 and whenever and the pension is close to 100%.

Or at least that is what it is like in Beijing.