Intercepting The Ram

[KenpoNoChikara]

A Question about Intercepting the Ram:
The technique seems rather awkward to me, mostly when your on one leg w/ the hammerfist to the back of the neck. I was thinking it would be even more so if the attacker happens to be a good deal taller/bigger/stronger then I.
Are there any ajustments i could make to make it "flow" better, or help keep my balence?

 

[TigerWoman]

I'm not in Kenpo and we do this defense differently in TKD but here is another thread on this subject here TW

 

[sac-ked]

My instructor has always told me that the techniques are guidelines and to make the art your own. If you feel of balance maybe insert a twist stance rather than the one leg stance. Just a thought.

Respectfully,
Brian

 

[rmcrobertson]

The hammer doesn't go to the neck, which is going to be hard to hit in time with that weapon; it goes to the attacker's left kidney, as you left step to about 11:00 to get out of the line of attack and deliver a right knee. If they keep charging forward, the technique says that you let them shove you backwards into a left neutral bow, while delivering a left elbow to the back of the neck....if they're trying to take you down with a tackle, the elbow should be right there as you go back.

In other words, you should be stepping to 11:00 and going for a target that helps you toward a momentary "bracing angle," using your attacker.

As a general principle, do NOT modify techniques before you a) understand them a little, b) have practiced them enough to have a reasonable working knowledge.

And before anybody starts up, this is obviously not, a) an invariable rule, or, b) a claim that technqiues should never change or evolve.

 

[kenpoworks]

I was going to write a longer post describing what IMHO happens when some one is "really" charging, but what the heck it's Sunday night, but, basically and from "experience" (whoooo), formulate ASAP, modify the "Ideal", control the head and neck with the left hand via a chin wrench ( anchoring the left elbow into the dummy's mid spine) PDQ or you are in a PhD situation!

Richy.

Ps don't trust anything I or anyone else say's on the "Internet" , because it's your *** on the line!

 

[Michael Billings]

The step offline and knee (which could be repeated to get the desired effect), hammerfist, and elbow, again could be repeated, until it is opportune to execute the left hammerfist to the nerve cluster at the base of the left occipital, followed by the neck crank, anchored elbow, pivot, etc.

I really like the flow power and simplicity of this technique and extension.

-Michael

 

[rmcrobertson]

Uh...guys...at the risk of being a hide-bound, fetishizing stick-in-the-mud, I'm afraid that the IDEAL VERSION OF THE TECHNIQUE includes a rear cross into a twist stance, and an unwind that has the neck-crank in it (following the elbow to the back of the neck) before the right punch to the attacker's jaw.

 

[Michael Billings]

Robert et. al.

This is the Ideal Phase of the technique as I have it from Mr. Parker's manual circa 1989 - 1990. Then following are the "Notes" provided on that technique:

-Michael

20. INTERCEPTING THE RAM (Front tackle)

1. Standing naturally, hop onto your left foot toward 11 o'clock, and deliver a right knee kick to your opponent's solar plexus. Simultaneously deliver a right inward overhead hammerfist to your opponent's right kidney, as your left hand checks your opponent's right shoulder. (This should stun your opponent.)

2. With your opponent's momentum forcing you back, drop back with your right foot toward 6 o'clock into a left neutral bow (facing 12 o'clock), as you deliver a left inward overhead elbow strike to the upper spine of your opponent. During this action your right hand acts as a SLIDING CHECK along your opponent's back to his shoulders to keep his Height Zones in check. (This should begin to force your opponent to the ground.)

3. Immediately slide your left foot counterclockwise to 4:30 into a right neutral bow, as you deliver a right inward downward diagonal punch which converts into a forearm elbow smash to the left side of your opponent's jaw. Simultaneously have your left arm act as a SLIDING CHECK on your opponent's right shoulder. (This should drive your opponent's head toward the ground.)

4. After striking your opponent's jaw, continue to pivot to your left, as you deliver a right back scooping heel kick to the right side of his jaw. (Your opponent should fall to the ground.)

5. Without planting your right foot, execute a right front crossover, and cover out twice toward 4:30.

and

NOTES
20. INTERCEPTING THE RAM

1. NAME: The name of this technique stems from two sources: 1) ram, which is symbolic of a tackle, and 2) the maneuvers used in intercepting the attack. Both sources contribute to the name, Intercepting the Ram.

2. THEME: On occasion the environment and/or time may not allow you to move to desired directions. In this case you are to stop your opponent's action before it builds to its full potential. Your defensive and offensive actions merge with that of your opponent's action to stop him.

3. THE ATTACK: In the IDEAL PHASE of this technique your opponent is to the front. He attempts to tackle you at the waist with his arms spread. Other WHAT IF factors are:

a. He tries to employ a cross-body block.

b. He attempts a shoe-string tackle.

c. He uses a number of feints before committing his action.

d. He pushes you into a wall before attempting the tackle.
​

4. Anticipate his momentum forcing you back. Time your next counter to borrow this force.

5. Also be sure to settle to add stability during your overhead elbow strike.

6. Carefully examine the various methods of Contouring used throughout this technique.

7. See how you can graft this technique with Broken Ram and/or Charging Ram.

8. Analyze your opponent's motion and see how it effects your ability to control the various Zones of Protection.

 

[Michael Billings]

I do insert the hammerfist and neck break, with a supressing check with my forearm which fulcrums the neck prior to step number 3 below, but this was not part of the Ideal any longer as of the latest versions. Of course I think everyone (maybe I am being too generous), knows the inserts here and have made them part of their Ideal Phase technique.

-Michael

 

[rmcrobertson]

I learned this technique first from somebody who used precisely the same manual, with the follow-up to the elbow being exactly what I now recognize as a "sliding check," that helps redirect the attacker.

The overtones--and I mean that in the same sense one sees in music--came from the LTKKA manual, and from subsequent instruction, so all in all I pretty much agree with Mr. Billings.

However, this thread again illustrates what happens when you fiddle with the technqiues because they, "don't work,' before you understand them at a primary level at least.

 

[kenpoworks]

Reminds me of Mr. Parkers story about the "Tradesman" who could not read so he had to "think", "Fiddlin" can lead to progression, I think (DUH! IMHO) that the Equation Formula (orange Belt) is a guide to fiddlin as well as an endorsement of it.
Rich

 

[Seabrook]

The hammer doesn't go to the neck, which is going to be hard to hit in time with that weapon; it goes to the attacker's left kidney, as you left step to about 11:00 to get out of the line of attack and deliver a right knee. If they keep charging forward, the technique says that you let them shove you backwards into a left neutral bow, while delivering a left elbow to the back of the neck....if they're trying to take you down with a tackle, the elbow should be right there as you go back.

In other words, you should be stepping to 11:00 and going for a target that helps you toward a momentary "bracing angle," using your attacker.

As a general principle, do NOT modify techniques before you a) understand them a little, b) have practiced them enough to have a reasonable working knowledge.

And before anybody starts up, this is obviously not, a) an invariable rule, or, b) a claim that technqiues should never change or evolve.

Hi Robert,

I am almost positive that Mr. Tatum hammers the back of the neck on his DVD series with the initial knee and strike.


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[Seabrook]

Uh...guys...at the risk of being a hide-bound, fetishizing stick-in-the-mud, I'm afraid that the IDEAL VERSION OF THE TECHNIQUE includes a rear cross into a twist stance, and an unwind that has the neck-crank in it (following the elbow to the back of the neck) before the right punch to the attacker's jaw.

That's how I am doing as well Robert.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[rmcrobertson]

The Equation Formula is not at all a license to, "fiddle," aimlessly with techniques. It's a reminder that the sequence of moves making up the basic level of techniques may be re-combined in various ways, much as the syllables, roots, prefixes, suffixes, phrases and clauses, that make up sentences may be re-combined in various ways to generate new sentences.

As far as I can see, this is exactly the same idea as Chomsky's old "generative grammar," or any number of structuralist analyses. They all depend on having certain, "building blocks," then shuffling the blocks according to certain laws--or, if you like, certain concepts and principles.

The trick is to a) make sure you've got good blocks to play with; b) learn the concepts and principles that govern their proper shuffling; c) develop the presence of mind and spirit to shuffle as necessary.

 

[kenpoworks]

Ah, yes Old Chomsky of course, the fiddler,

 

[parkerkarate]

One big sugestion, keep moving back with the attacker. You stun him with the knee, heel-palm and hammer fist. Once you hit start moving back, deliver the left inward-overhead elbow. Immediately grab under his chin with your left hand, while you go into an rear twist stance, rotate out and snap his neck (not in real life because that is illegal, but anyways) immediately deliver the right fore arm smash. Go into a rear cat, deliver a right downward heel-palm and smash his face in with a right heel-kick. It is not exactly a scoop kick, just raise you heel up.
And than in the words of Bill Cosby, "walk away passively."

These are the kinds of techniques I love in the system, the kinds that are just full out blitz's.

 

[Seabrook]

These are the kinds of techniques I love in the system, the kinds that are just full out blitz's.[/QUOTE]
You talk like me bro....


Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[parkerkarate]

great minds think alike LOL. who is your instructor again?

 

[Seabrook]

I am a member of the LTKKA and will be going to Las Vegas Camp in June. I hope to train with Mr. Tatum on a regular basis thereafter.

I am a former WKKA member from 1995-1997. BTW - I just hung out with Steve Arsenault (WKKA vice-president) a few weeks ago and did some training with him. He's an awesome guy and friend.

Jamie Seabrook
www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[parkerkarate]

Very cool I have met Mr. Arsenalt at the few WKKA camps that I have been to. My instructor is Mr. Joe Palanzo.