Interact with quality martial artists.

[Drose427]

yeah but how did these street fighters get good?

Because if it ends with something something fight quality guys........

Well it still isnt sport fighting....so that "Sport fighting best" argument is still flawed..

 

[drop bear]

I have known many street fighters (gang members, bikers, etc.) in my day and not a one of them would have been any good fighting within a set of rules but they sure could kick butt in the street or in a bar.

Oh and bikers here employ mma guys as stand over men. It has become a very Brisbane thing.

 

[drop bear]

Well it still isnt sport fighting....so that "Sport fighting best" argument is still flawed..

Really why?

 

[Drose427]

When has Street Fighting and Sport Fighting ever been the same thing? I didn't realize I could, throw chairs, bottles, smash heads off bartops, eye gouge, groin strike, bite, headbutt, throw downward elbows, pick up anything I wanted in the cage. If they could to be good at street fighting from street fighting by doing those (^) types of things in street fighting. You can't attribute any of their prowess to Sport fighting or Sport training they never had.

 

[tshadowchaser]

They got good by fighting all the time getting their butts handed to them and doing it again till they learned what worked best for them.

Drose,
two different monsters in what respect? I quoted

If you cant be successful sparring with rules how are you going to fair in a fight without them. If you are successful with rules then you will be more successful when the rules are not holding you back.

and I gave an example of those that do not use rules as opposed to those that do.
I will agree if you follow rules you may be able to defend yourself outside of the training area but I put my money on those that live by not following the rules in fights with the exception of the police who must stay close to the rules they abide with

 

[tshadowchaser]

sorry I did not realize we where trickily talking about the cage or sport.
Ok to get better at sport train under someone who can point out your flaws. Correct those flaws and train some more. Fight/spar as often as you can practice dose help perfect your ability.

 

[Drose427]

They got good by fighting all the time getting their butts handed to them and doing it again till they learned what worked best for them.

Drose,
two different monsters in what respect? I quoted

and I gave an example of those that do not use rules as opposed to those that do.
I will agree if you follow rules you may be able to defend yourself outside of the training area but I put my money on those that live by not following the rules in fights with the exception of the police who must stay close to the rules they abide with

By exactly what you said. One, you train to do Whatever it takes to survive. NO restrictions. I agree that cops should be held to a higher standard on that note. Whereas in sport training, you do whatever you're allowed to do in order to win under that rule-set.
So essentially, SD and Sport training are 2 different entities and though processes. You have a different mindset facing a sport opponent then you would fighting for your life. My whole debate with DB, was his argument that Sports training is a better overall method for SD than nonsport training

 

[tshadowchaser]

ok I see where your coming from.
one thing I would point out is if your( anyone in general) attitude going in is not that /youthey can win they need to rethink. Not having a winning mind set is one of the fasted ways to lose be it sport. professional, street.
Playing by the rules and a street fight are the same in that respect.
Who dose better in the street, one who only practices sport or one who practices self defense all the time well I can not answer that one myself. so I'll bow out now

 

[drop bear]

sorry I did not realize we where trickily talking about the cage or sport.
Ok to get better at sport train under someone who can point out your flaws. Correct those flaws and train some more. Fight/spar as often as you can practice dose help perfect your ability.

I am not specifically talking about sport. The debate has come up again. But given your friends. What does that say about self defence training?

I mean if being a toughie is less about training and more about living a toughie lifestyle. Are all of us just wasting our time?

 

[drop bear]

By exactly what you said. One, you train to do Whatever it takes to survive. NO restrictions. I agree that cops should be held to a higher standard on that note. Whereas in sport training, you do whatever you're allowed to do in order to win under that rule-set.
So essentially, SD and Sport training are 2 different entities and though processes. You have a different mindset facing a sport opponent then you would fighting for your life. My whole debate with DB, was his argument that Sports training is a better overall method for SD than nonsport training

This is not sport vs SD though. The bikers are not SD men either. What we have done here is add a new dynamic to the conversation that dose not bolster either argument except mabye in some small over flow.

 

[tshadowchaser]

nope I survived in that company just fine. Made a lot of friends and they respected what I did/do. Only had oneor two try me and after that no one else did.
Training can help you survive you just need to know when to use it and not brag about it or what you just did.
Much of surviving in that company is based on attitude mutual respect and how you interact with others. HHHHMMMM sounds a lot like the arts doesn't it
but this is getting off the op and I apologize for that

 

[drop bear]

When has Street Fighting and Sport Fighting ever been the same thing? I didn't realize I could, throw chairs, bottles, smash heads off bartops, eye gouge, groin strike, bite, headbutt, throw downward elbows, pick up anything I wanted in the cage. If they could to be good at street fighting from street fighting by doing those (^) types of things in street fighting. You can't attribute any of their prowess to Sport fighting or Sport training they never had.

So i can come to your gym and glass somebody in sparring?

 

[tshadowchaser]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

yes it is one way to get better. Possibly not the only way but it dose help if you learn from your mistakes, have a coach/trainer, instructor that can point out your flaws and you improve on them.
Practice on basics also helps more than people think.
a mindset that you will be the best you can be is also necessary

 

[drop bear]

nope I survived in that company just fine. Made a lot of friends and they respected what I did/do. Only had oneor two try me and after that no one else did.
Training can help you survive you just need to know when to use it and not brag about it or what you just did.
Much of surviving in that company is based on attitude mutual respect and how you interact with others. HHHHMMMM sounds a lot like the arts doesn't it
but this is getting off the op and I apologize for that

my point here is it is a different dynamic. SD. Training is not the same as living life as a street fighter.

 

[tshadowchaser]

So i can come to your gym and glass somebody in sparring?

if you or anyone on MT is near my place the doors are open for an interchange of ideas and techniques. My doors have always been open to all who wanted to meet. If my place of practice is not open I know 3 other places in the area that we can use.


oh I did not live the life of a street fighter I was a medic and a pressman at a newspaper during those years

 

[drop bear]

yes it is one way to get better. Possibly not the only way but it dose help if you learn from your mistakes, have a coach/trainer, instructor that can point out your flaws and you improve on them.
Practice on basics also helps more than people think.
a mindset that you will be the best you can be is also necessary

i have said that their are other important training methods. I thought that would be implied as in any other thread.

 

[Drose427]

This is not sport vs SD though. The bikers are not SD men either. What we have done here is add a new dynamic to the conversation that dose not bolster either argument except mabye in some small over flow.

If the bikers are being attacked on the street in no competitive medium, with danger of injury or worse, it's Self-Defense. Whether they've had SD training or not. By your earlier logic, even if they successfully defended themselves, they arent successful fighters because they haven't trained sport.

So i can come to your gym and glass somebody in sparring?

Not in free sparring, but in SD I'll give you rubber or hard plastic knife myself when we do SD. You can swipe or stab anyway you like. After 5-10 minutes, we switch off whos got the weapon.

my point here is it is a different dynamic. SD. Training is not the same as living life as a street fighter.

Neither is Sport Training. But according to what you told Chris, that makes them unsuccessful fighters. If people can defend themselves in street brawls, or when being attacked without sports training, its hard to call an emphasis on sport a necessity.

I would rather know I can defend myself against a 200 lbs man out for blood using what I've learned and drilled in SD, than hope I can break my Sports habits and fight someone considerably larger, which I may rarely do in a Sports Setting.

 

[drop bear]

if you or anyone on MT is near my place the doors are open for an interchange of ideas and techniques. My doors have always been open to all who wanted to meet. If my place of practice is not open I know 3 other places in the area that we can use.


oh I did not live the life of a street fighter I was a medic and a pressman at a newspaper during those years

Yeah but i bet nobody is going to like me glassing people in training. I certainly wouldn't. It is a common argument that is made that sports training has rules and then assumed self defence training does not.

And come on guys self defence training does precisely for the same reason we do.

So I cant go in to a gym and glass someone.

 

[tshadowchaser]

what the hell is glassing

 

[drop bear]

Not in free sparring, but in SD I'll give you rubber or hard plastic knife myself when we do SD. You can swipe or stab anyway you like. After 5-10 minutes, we switch off whos got the weapon.

What with rules?

See now we are sports training