Info on Progressive Fighting System

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by Nemesis, May 21, 2006.

  1. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    I've already done some of your "normal" martial arts like karate or kickboxing and i was thinking about joining a style a bit more streetwise. There's a self-defense class not far from where i life, they teach progressive fighting system, the program includes empty hands, knife and stick training. I've done a bit searching on the net for information about this system and i've only became even more confused. It's suposed to have been created by Paul Vunak (one of Dan Inosanto's students) and it's a mixture of Kali, Wing Chung, Muay Thai, BJJ and a bunch of other things i don't remember right now. He clames to be able to transform a regular guy in a street fighter "not in a matter of year or months, but in just a few days".
    I'm really interested in a self-defense system and this is the only one i can find near me, but what is this all about? "in just a few days"? Statments such as these remind me of the DragonBall series! (Freezer: I will defeat you Son Goku! You are no match for me!)
    Is anybody familiared with this style, or with Kali and Wing Chun (is Wing Chun related to Wing Tsun)?
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Wing Chun is the same as Wing Tsun. Different people like to spell it differently.

    I think Paul Vunak is probably very good, but I would be very skeptical of anybody who claims he can make you skilled in street self defense in a matter of days.
     
  3. Flatlander

    Flatlander Grandmaster

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    I would highly recommend the PFC system. Vunak's stuff is awesome - I haven't trained under him directly, but my instructor has. If you have no skills to begin with (totally blank slate), train hard, (4-6 hours/day), and are athletically inclined, it's not out of the question that your streetfighting skills will improve immensely in a short period of time. I remember after about 2 months of 2 hours twice per week (32 hours total), feeling really confident about my streetfighting capabilities. Lots of JKD concepts, some filipino stuff, and Muay Thai at the beginning.

    I'm sure nobody is suggesting that you will 'master the art' in a couple of days, so don't even go there - Vunak is far too skilled and respected to be viewed in that regard. All I can suggest is go and try it out. In fact, I'd be most interested in seeing you to post your experiences here.

    Best of luck in your search!
     
  4. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    That's what i think too. He sems legit and i do believe some methods of training may produce results faster than others but that speach sounded a bit like TV sale to me.
     
  5. Robert Lee

    Robert Lee Brown Belt

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    Vunack Pfc Comes from JKD, kal, thia boxing ect. He has good understanding of the applications needs for street defence. And works on the concept of developing the kiiler instinct. That being the heart to fight on and do what is needed to come out on top of the situation. If this person is from the Vunack bunch You will have a chance to learn some good workable tool training. Try it out you will see that it gets down to the point. And thats the only way you will know if its what you are looking for. Good luck And keep us posted as to what you decide
     
  6. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I've studied Paul Vunak's system for several years under one of his senior instructors. I find it very good--simple, yet effective. Obviously, 'a few days' is marketing hype. But, it is a fairly straight-forward and easy to learn system that I believe is highly effective. I recommend it.

    In a nutshell: Boxing techniques at longer range with Thai kickboxing to control range; Wing Chun style trapping at close range; Filipino methods for edged and impact weapons use and defense; Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu if tackled. The basic theory is: Get in close and grab the neck, then use HKE (headbutts, knee strikes, and elbows). Simple--but very effective. How good do I think it is? It's what I have my son study (in addition to what I teach him from arnis).

    There are other good options out there, but I can recommend this one whole-heartedly.
     
  7. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    Thanks a lot everyone, I think I will try it out. Sounds just what I am looking for.
     
  8. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    By the way, his program appears to be changing. I'm traveling now and away from my instructor so I don't know much about it. The PFS system is just Paul Vunak's version of Jeet Kune Do, and we consider that JKD is what we are learning; I don't know whether this new program will change that. The BJJ-style grappling has always been a small component of the JKD where Ie study, but my instructor also teaches BJJ as a separate art so I do get that material one way or another. It sounds like the DEFCON system may represent a greater integration of JKD with BJJ and a renewed emphasis on dealing with common/expected threats (which has always been there). I don't know if it's a response to market pressures or a fundamental change in his approach; it sounds like the old stuff with more BJJ and more consideration of likely encounters, to me.
     
  9. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Hi all, I was/am an instructor in PFS. Although I don't do the PFS curriculum now, it had lots of good stuff. As to the DEFCON thing I have no idea, I went and looked on his webpage and didn't see anything.
    How I understood PFS to be set up was there was the R.A.T. (rapid assualt tactics) that was designed to answer the most common threats which is the streamlined version that you are talking about here, what PFS called self protection. And there was the Self Perfection side where if you wanted you learned and did all the sumbradas, hubuds, siniwali, chi sau, juros etc.

    My best advice is to call him and talk to him, he was alway very approachable.
     
  10. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Perhaps that project was abandoned...what I posted at the linked page was copied from his web site, but I no longer see it there.
     
  11. Marvin

    Marvin Black Belt

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    Probably, naming something DEFCON may come with some preconceived notions as to what it’s about. Maybe that’s why it's executive PFS now?
     
  12. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    What is DEFCON, executive PFS, RAT.? Are these diferent styles within the system of PFS with diferent techniques or is it just a diferent tactic wich the same techniques.
     
  13. James Kovacich

    James Kovacich Senior Master

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    Yes a bit of marketing hype but with some truth to it. One of the first things my Sifu Felix Jr. told me was "what we teach today, you can use today." And it's true.

    I think that Vu is thinking along those lines but at the same time thinking about his bank account.
     
  14. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I don't know if DEFCON has even been implemented yet, or if it will be. It appears that the things previously labeled as DEFCON are now labeled as exec. PFS. As I understand things, PFS refers to his version of JKD. Within that, exec. PFS is a streamlined version for people who want a quick intro. (I may be mistaken about this), and RAT is the basic clinch-and-HKE approach at the core of the system.

    If you go to a regular school, expect to get the PFS version of JKD, which includes RAT.
     
  15. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    How about the armed trainnig (knife and stick), it's basically Kali, right?
     
  16. Nemesis

    Nemesis Orange Belt

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    Another thing. I don't believe that in a streetfight you should go to the ground (you never know who's around) but some times you just can't help it. So is PFS mostly a striking system or does it also have any grappling like BJJ or wrestling? From what you've said so far the PFS guy grabs his opponent so that he can use strikes like elbows and headbutts, but what happens if his opponent grabs him first and tries to take it to the ground?
     
  17. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    There's grappling, but an emphasis on the standing clinch.

    Yes, the FMA is basic Kali.
     
  18. akatrk

    akatrk White Belt

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    Try the system. I think you'll like it. Me, I love it.

    I just started training under the system and my sifu is teaching me how to defend myself through proper defense FIRST, and offense LATER. What does that mean? Simply put, learning how to cover, utilizing a destruction to terminate an attack (e.g. elbow smashes the fist that's thrown to your head) footwork, footwork, and more footwork, keeping distance between you and the attacker, just staying out of his reach but close enough for a stop kick to halt his straight blast.

    What I like the most about the system is that it's like what the name states. It's progressive. You learn one or two simple things, you build on it.

    Like any thing else in life, try it. See if there is a free class to take and if so, try it. I personally don't try classes under instructors that charge a fee to try a class. Just my two cents.
     
  19. Henderson

    Henderson Master Black Belt

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    Vunak and Bruce Corrigan have an article in the July '06 issue of Black Belt magazine entitled Def-Con 5: Hard-Core Methods for Surviving the Five Most Common Street Assaults, so it seems the moniker is still around. The article touches on Assault & Battery, Home Invasion, Kidnapping, Carjacking, and Sexual Assault.
     
  20. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    Someone mentioned the Black Belt article in this thread so I went to Borders to look for it. They have the new versions of just about everything, including even Classical Fighting Arts, but are still showing the June issue of Black Belt! I'll keep looking.123
     

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