In general, how well does TKD stand up to other arts such as:

[Hwoarang_tkd26]

Ok, I know that this thread might cause some arguments between everyone's opinions, it's just something that I have been curious about lately, so tell me what you think.
In general how well does TaeKwonDo stand up to in compitition with other arts such as: Muy Thai, Jujitsu, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, ect?
I love my art (TKD), and I want it to be as efective as possible.
Even before I was in TKD, I was self practicing my own style when I when I was very little (I was about 5).
I was so inspired by all the Karate movies that I was watching, that I started practicing my own style, Which when I look back on it.. It was very similar to TKD.
And when I finaly joined TKD, I picked up on it very quikely.
TKD is who I am and always will be, but I also want effectiveness.
And I also want confidence in what I teach to the students is effective.
So tell me how well TKD compares to others, because I was ok with things up until lately when I was with a friend watching some Ultimate Fighting tapes,
which bothered me because I didn't see any arts that were even similar to TKD competing, just the grapling arts mainly.
Give me your opinion. Thanks

- Hwoarang_tkd26

 

[loki09789]

What do you mean by "stand up?" Do you mean philosophically, scholarly, technically, athleticism...?

I took TKD and found it a great art overall. It has holes in it just like any art does but that just means that you have to be really smart and studied in the art so that you can either find ways to fill the gaps or adjust so that you are tactically sound enough to miminize how well those gaps show up.

 

[Andrew Green]

So tell me how well TKD compares to others, because I was ok with things up until lately when I was with a friend watching some Ultimate Fighting tapes,
which bothered me because I didn't see any arts that were even similar to TKD competing, just the grapling arts mainly.
Give me your opinion. Thanks

- Hwoarang_tkd26

Look back to the very early ones and you will see a few with TKD on their resume. But they didn't do well.

TKD is very restrictive in what they are allowed to do, making it an easy target for other, less restrictive fighters. It is fairly easy to take a TKD practitioner down, or close the distance and clinch, (or even punching to the head). These things aren't allowed in TKD, so TKD practitioners do things which leave themselves open to them, they are also not used to having people try to do those things to them.

TKD is a fine art, but in mixed competition it doesn't stand up well at all... it usually finds itself on its back getting punched or submitted...

 

[MJS]

Ok, I know that this thread might cause some arguments between everyone's opinions, it's just something that I have been curious about lately, so tell me what you think.
In general how well does TaeKwonDo stand up to in compitition with other arts such as: Muy Thai, Jujitsu, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, ect?
I love my art (TKD), and I want it to be as efective as possible.
Even before I was in TKD, I was self practicing my own style when I when I was very little (I was about 5).
I was so inspired by all the Karate movies that I was watching, that I started practicing my own style, Which when I look back on it.. It was very similar to TKD.
And when I finaly joined TKD, I picked up on it very quikely.
TKD is who I am and always will be, but I also want effectiveness.
And I also want confidence in what I teach to the students is effective.
So tell me how well TKD compares to others, because I was ok with things up until lately when I was with a friend watching some Ultimate Fighting tapes,
which bothered me because I didn't see any arts that were even similar to TKD competing, just the grapling arts mainly.
Give me your opinion. Thanks

- Hwoarang_tkd26

Like Paul said, everything has its share of holes. The thing with all of the arts out there, is that everything has its strong and weak spots. That being said, thats why I feel, IMO, its important to cross train. Is it something you need to do? Not at all. To give an example. In my base art of Kenpo, it covers a variety of things...punching, kicking, checking, some grappling, weapons, etc. Speaking for myself, I wanted to further expand on certain areas, such as grappling, so I took up BJJ.

I love my art (TKD), and I want it to be as efective as possible.

That being said, I would make sure that your training is as well rounded as possible. Make sure that you're addressing all of the ranges of fighting....punching, kicking, clinching, and grappling. Also make sure that during your training, you are training with resistance and aliveness.

So tell me how well TKD compares to others, because I was ok with things up until lately when I was with a friend watching some Ultimate Fighting tapes,
which bothered me because I didn't see any arts that were even similar to TKD competing, just the grapling arts mainly

2 very different methods of training here. If you look at the first few UFC events, you'll notice that everyone was a 1 style fighter. As time went on, people realized that they needed to crosstrain in order to better compete with their opponents.

I hope that this was a help. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

Mike

 

[bignick]

this depends on the rules you fight under....if it's under TKD rules...we'll probably pick apart a grappler...if its grappling rules...we'll probably get picked apart...

if it's no holds barred...yes...a lot of TKD people don't practice grappling so they might be in trouble

 

[TigerWoman]

Sparring with TKD rules is one thing, streetfighting another, and ring anything goes except the most deadly or harmful, third. Taekwondo has the best kickers in the world, no doubt about it. We are trained by endless repetion, hard targets, speed etc. If we are trained to kick over our heads easily, kicking low is really no problem at all and in fact, soooo much easier. Our instructor trains us for street fighting, fighting dirty for self defense. But that is not ring fighting. We don't do grappling on the floor. We probably have just a few moves if we do get to the floor. Our strength is reacting when someone gets in our distance range. So, yeah, if you were ring fighting, not self defense, get some grappling cross-training. The rest, is taken care of with regular Taekwondo training. But as a smaller person, I know, that grappling would never be my strong point. I would rather train to my strength-kick and punch and have just a few grappling methods than start weight training as a woman. TW

 

[Andrew Green]

2 very different methods of training here. If you look at the first few UFC events, you'll notice that everyone was a 1 style fighter. As time went on, people realized that they needed to crosstrain in order to better compete with their opponents.

And from there a return to training one style which incorporates all of the important skills

Boxing + Wrestling + BJJ does not = MMA

The trick is in how all of those skills fit together.

So right now, MMA is once again becoming one style fighters, although some crosstrain outside of that to specialise in specific skills.

It's a very simple formula

Less restriction = More complete fighter

TKD has a ton of restrictions, so it doesn't do well when those restrictions are lifted.

But like everyone is saying, under TKD rules you'll probably clean up

 

[bignick]

TKD has a ton of restrictions, so it doesn't do well when those restrictions are lifted.

But like everyone is saying, under TKD rules you'll probably clean up

just to clear up one little point, TKD competitions has a lot of restrictions...which creates problems for those that only train to compete...we may not do a whole lot of grappling(usually slim to none...) we do have more weapons than just our feet. but to agree with you andrew...most people that train for competition TKD are gonna flounder without the rules

 

[MJS]

Taekwondo has the best kickers in the world, no doubt about it. We are trained by endless repetion, hard targets, speed etc.

Now, I don't train TKD, so I'm not too familiar with the kicks. While I am not disputing that TKD has some good kicks, I would think that as far as some good powerful kicking, Muay Thai fighters would have that market cornered.

So, yeah, if you were ring fighting, not self defense, get some grappling cross-training.

I would still think that even for SD, having a basic knowledge of grappling would be a plus.

But as a smaller person, I know, that grappling would never be my strong point. I would rather train to my strength-kick and punch and have just a few grappling methods than start weight training as a woman. TW

Keep in mind that you don't need to be huge in order to be able to grapple. Helio Gracie is a small man and hes grappling.

Mike

 

[Marginal]

Now, I don't train TKD, so I'm not too familiar with the kicks. While I am not disputing that TKD has some good kicks, I would think that as far as some good powerful kicking, Muay Thai fighters would have that market cornered.

Yeah, but that pretty much boils down the the MT round kick. Their front kick's exactly the same, and there's typically not much else in the MT arsenal. MT fighters tend to have trouble dealing with side kicks etc.

I would still think that even for SD, having a basic knowledge of grappling would be a plus.

Most TKD schools do offer basic stand up grappling skills.

Keep in mind that you don't need to be huge in order to be able to grapple. Helio Gracie is a small man and hes grappling.

Mike

He's 1000000000000 years old. He doesn't grapple much anymore.

 

[Corporal Hicks]

Well Tae Kwon Do has its main limits because it is generally a purely kicking art. I would personally say that at long distance fighting using just leg work and maybe some middle range fighting, Tae Kwon Do would probably be near one of the best Martial Arts for this, there is no doubt, but as the other guys have said here, when you apply Tae Kwon Do in its whole to a self defence situation or a ring situation in which there are no TKD rules i.e. no kicking below the belt etc etc, then you are at a severe disadvangtage.
If somebody whether it be in UFC ring or in self defence situation gets past your kicks and into your close quator fighting zone I would say your pretty much..... well bu**ered unless you have done some other Martial Art that focuses either on grappling or upper body fighting techniques. If your fighting in a pub or a crowded nightclub and somebody starts on you and you are forced to defend yourself, you wont be able to kick in those crowded spaces and you will probably be no better off skill wise than the person you are fighting a against. In conclusion, TKD at long range...you cannot beat it (generally) at close range, your bu**ered. Some may disagree with me on this, but I've seen some if it first hand and it made me think!
Regards

 

[MJS]

Yeah, but that pretty much boils down the the MT round kick. Their front kick's exactly the same, and there's typically not much else in the MT arsenal. MT fighters tend to have trouble dealing with side kicks etc.

One difference is that there is not a snappy motion that you find in most karate style kicks. I'm curious, what is the problem that they have with the side kicks?

Keep in mind, like anything, it all comes down to quality over quantity. Just because there may be more kicks in TKD than MT, does not mean that the TKD guy is a better fighter.

Most TKD schools do offer basic stand up grappling skills.

Well, thats good to see at least some basic skills are being taught. I would think that some basic skills while on the ground are important too.

He's 1000000000000 years old. He doesn't grapple much anymore.

Age wasn't what I was talking about. I was making ref. to his size.

Mike

 

[Drag'n]

Yeah, but that pretty much boils down the the MT round kick. Their front kick's exactly the same, and there's typically not much else in the MT arsenal. MT fighters tend to have trouble dealing with side kicks etc.

Not the way I was taught.TKD front kick relies mainly on the cocking of the knee and snapping of the thigh to generate power , whereas the Thais use an emphasised forward thrust of the hips and sometimes digging in the big Toe into the solar plexus.In my experience more powerfull and painfull.

Not much of an arsenal? Often Simple is best.It has been found that the more of a quantity in choices you have, the slower your reaction time.A few techniques can combined in a variety of combinations against different targets to create a very dangerous arsenal.

Trouble with side kicks??? Most Thais I've seen love guys who throw side kicks and have no problem countering them.Numerous bouts between Thai fighters and TKD fighters or Chinese sanshou fighters(who use alot of TKD type kicks) have clearly displayed the difference in power and ended with an easy victory for the Thai.

Most TKD schools do offer basic stand up grappling skills.

But not enough to make them effective in a full contact no rules situation.


He's 1000000000000 years old. He doesn't grapple much anymore.

I recently saw a docu on Royler Gracie where they went to visit the old master and he was still up for a round of sparring.And pretty dam good too!

I have nothing against people who choose to study TKD.It has alot to offer.It got me started on a very rewarding journey.BUT, lets not make statements about other arts which we obviously have no experience in.If you think TKD will stand up against MT, go fight a Thai and then make your conclusion.

Sorry everyone, I just couldn't let that one slip by unanswered.

 

[Drag'n]

OOPS!
Posted my reply in the quoted box.
What a dummy!
Still havent figured out how use this forum properly yet.

 

[Baytor]

Ok, I know that this thread might cause some arguments between everyone's opinions, it's just something that I have been curious about lately, so tell me what you think.
In general how well does TaeKwonDo stand up to in compitition with other arts such as: Muy Thai, Jujitsu, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling, ect?
I love my art (TKD), and I want it to be as efective as possible.
Even before I was in TKD, I was self practicing my own style when I when I was very little (I was about 5).
I was so inspired by all the Karate movies that I was watching, that I started practicing my own style, Which when I look back on it.. It was very similar to TKD.
And when I finaly joined TKD, I picked up on it very quikely.
TKD is who I am and always will be, but I also want effectiveness.
And I also want confidence in what I teach to the students is effective.
So tell me how well TKD compares to others, because I was ok with things up until lately when I was with a friend watching some Ultimate Fighting tapes,
which bothered me because I didn't see any arts that were even similar to TKD competing, just the grapling arts mainly.
Give me your opinion. Thanks

- Hwoarang_tkd26

In my opinion, a lot of this depends on the person. Your intensity in training and your keeping an open mind to recognize strengths and weaknesses in all martial arts will all influence how you stand up to others. I happen to be a big fan of cross training, but my focus is different than what other people's might be. Good luck in your training.

 

[Marginal]

One difference is that there is not a snappy motion that you find in most karate style kicks. I'm curious, what is the problem that they have with the side kicks?

They typically don't train side kicks, so they don't really have an answer to 'em when they encounter htem. I wonder... Do you dismiss Kyokyushin kicking as well? Same concept behind those snappy kicks.

Keep in mind, like anything, it all comes down to quality over quantity. Just because there may be more kicks in TKD than MT, does not mean that the TKD guy is a better fighter.

Wasn't what I was agruing against. I was arguing against the notion that MT had all the answers on kicking. It does not. Doesn't make them better or worse, I'm simply saying that MT's known for one distinctive powerful kick, and the rest carries over pretty much 1:1 where there's overlap. The difference is in the conditioning, the less restrictive rule set etc.

I have nothing against people who choose to study TKD.It has alot to offer.It got me started on a very rewarding journey.BUT, lets not make statements about other arts which we obviously have no experience in.If you think TKD will stand up against MT, go fight a Thai and then make your conclusion.

I've said nothing that any MT fighter would actually debate if you bothered to read what I wrote rather than presuming I was saying "Urgh, uh, dur... TKD best!!!"

 

[MJS]

They typically don't train side kicks, so they don't really have an answer to 'em when they encounter htem.

If you look at the way they block kicks, you'll notice that they're pretty much covered regardless of what kick is coming...front, side, roundhouse.

I wonder... Do you dismiss Kyokyushin kicking as well? Same concept behind those snappy kicks.

Yes, you're right. And its the same concept in Kenpo, TKD, Shotokan, etc. You will get much more power by using your hips, driving the kick, compared to a snappy motion. Watch a roundhouse kick throw by any karate man and a MT man and you will see a difference. Do a little research on MT kicking and you should find what I'm talking about.

I've done Kenpo for 17yrs. I can generate some good power kicking a target using the karate style kick, but when I apply the MT principles, I get much more power.

Wasn't what I was agruing against. I was arguing against the notion that MT had all the answers on kicking. It does not. Doesn't make them better or worse, I'm simply saying that MT's known for one distinctive powerful kick, and the rest carries over pretty much 1:1 where there's overlap. The difference is in the conditioning, the less restrictive rule set etc.

There are front kick, round kicks, side kicks, etc. in many arts. Its the way they are applied/thrown that makes the difference. And as I, as well as someone else on here has said, what matters is quality not quantity. Who cares if TKD has 40 kicks and MT has 8, what matters is being able to apply them. The same can be said for SD techs. You can know 100 techs or 10 techs. but if you can't apply them when you need to, what good are they?


Mike

 

[MJS]

Searched a little and came up with this.

Two Muay Thai techniques became popular in other martial arts: The Thai low kick and the Thai roundhouse kick. The low kick uses a circular movement of the entire body to kick the opponent's leg with the upper part of the shin. When not correctly defended against, this technique often leads to the end of the fight, as the opponent can not stand anymore after a few low-kicks. The Thai roundhouse kick is also unique and was adapted for its efficiency. The kick is carried out with a straight leg and the entire body rotating from the hip, which is "locked" right before the leg makes contact to the opponent. Other martial arts, such as Shotokan Karate tend to prefer "snappy" kicks, which are faster but less powerful. Furthermore, Thai boxers kick with the shin instead of the foot.

 

[TigerWoman]

Keep in mind that you don't need to be huge in order to be able to grapple. Helio Gracie is a small man and hes grappling.

Our instructor is a small guy, same height, lbs. as me but he has much more upper body strength probably because he is a man. Women aren't built for upper, our base is in our hips down. So grappling, I lose to most guys unless i have faster technque. Not really an equilizer.

Equal years trained, I would still bet on the TKD person with the stronger/bigger arsenal of kicks. We have too many people breaking concrete with the instep. How many muay thai do jumpback thru concrete? We train to be light on our feet, moving, its not like we're going to stand there and take hits to our legs. But we aren't super hard conditioned to ring fighting either. Not our bag. TW

 

[Andrew Green]

They typically don't train side kicks, so they don't really have an answer to 'em when they encounter htem.

There is a reason for that...

Side kicks are defended the same way as a front kick. The difference is if you throw a front kick you don't turn your hips into it as far, which if you miss means you just gave your back yo your opponent. This is a very bad thing...

That is why side kicks aren't done in Muay Thai and MMA, cause you put yourself in danger by doing them.