Improving kick power/strength

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by ladolcevita, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    no you are miss applying it, we are talking about newtons laws of motion, which don't lend themselves to being explained in forum posts, so here is some reading
    Force - Wikipedia

    in,short, force is the effect an interaction has on the objects involved, so at its simplest, lets take the kicking of a football.

    kinetic energy is what you are using to strike it, force is what happens to the football, it has constant mass, so the key point is the acceleration of the object you have hit, not the speed of your foot in hitting it. So you would take the weight of the football and times that by its rate of acceleration to find the force you have generated. If you miss kick and skim the ball. The kinetic energy and speed of your foot is the same, but the force generated in the football is considerably less
    if you have made an error in judgement, and kicked a ball made of stone, it won't move, so the force applied os the weight of the stone ball times the deceleration of your foot.

    all forces being equal and opposite you will break your foot

    so... To measure force you measure the effect on the objects being contacted Not the speed or mass of the body striking the object .
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
  2. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Actually, no. Some of the force is absorbed in the deflection of the football. So there are two different places force can be measured. If you measure the movement of the football, you're measuring the resulting force (to simplify it, this is the force not absorbed by the football in deflection, plus the rebound force from that deflection). The force imparted to the football can also be calculated, and that will be the mass of the impacting object, times that object's velocity change over the time of its contact with the ball. This is harder to measure on a football kick because the foot doesn't stop. If we measured the force of kicking a Thai heavy bag, the foot does stop, so if we measured how long it took to stop (the time the bag is deflecting), we would be able to calculate the force delivered.

    The two (force at impact and kinetic energy just before impact) are actually opposite sides of the same math. Neither depends upon what is being struck. The force coming out the other side, however (measured as you suggested), shows the force lost in the object.
     
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  3. marques

    marques Master Black Belt

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    Yep. It can be found again and again high school physics, where the concept was explained with an oversimplified situation, 'applied' to the real world and highly complex systems (as human bodies hitting each other). Sometimes it works, sometimes don't...

    For instance, Force (even a huge one) can be 'just' pushing (ex: lifting 300 kg). In striking generally we don't want to push, we want to cause damage or, at least, pain.
     
  4. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    so after a long post, you are now accepting your original post was inaccurate ! You measure force by the acceleration of the football not the acceleration of the foot kicking it.
    what your describing in the distortion of the foot ball is a loss between the kinetic energy of the kick and the force received,
    but that's irrelevant to this discussion are we are talking about how force is measured, not the efficiency of the contact
     
  5. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Best way to get good kicks is to practice kicks
     
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  6. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    A person could expound thermodynamics to me in a conversation about cooking, but it probably wouldn't help with the preparing of fine food.

    And it sure as hell wouldn't help with the enjoyment of eating a great meal. Martial Artists should eat better.
     
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  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    thermodynamics is very important to cooking, image ne f they stated to make up their r own defintions of how to heat something up. They say boil and what they mean is,simmer, absolutely crucial to fine food, that people stick to the accepted defintions
     
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  8. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    Lies! You could practice your whole life, and not know the basics. o_O
     
  9. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    My wife (Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering) and I have had many a discussion of thermodynamics over a great meal. That discussion certainly added to the enjoyment. Of course, she's prettier than you are.
     
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  10. Balrog

    Balrog Master of Arts

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    Latecomer to the thread. I agree that technique is the key. Here's a drill that you can do to strengthen your legs as well as improve your technique. My students call this the Wall of Pain^G^G^G^GFun drill. :D

    This is excellent for side kicks, hook kicks, etc. Brace against a wall or a bag at arms length with the non-kicking side hand. Put the kicking side hand up in guard. Make sure your base foot is pivoted correctly with the toes pointed at the wall or bag.

    Visualize a table in front of you with the edge just below your hip joint. There's a ball on the table. If you bring your leg straight up, you'll clip the bottom edge of the table - not good. Chamber your side kick, pulling the knee back toward the back shoulder. If it's done correctly, you'll look kinda like a doggie on a fire hydrant. S-L-O-W-L-Y extend the leg into the full kick, clearing the edge of the table and pushing the ball off. Hold it locked out for 5-7 seconds, then slowly rechamber it. Lather, rinse, repeat. Do about 4-5 on each leg to start and slowly work your way up to 10 each leg.

    Your hip flexor muscles will promptly start screaming at you, because they don't normally get exercised like this and they're weak. As they strengthen, it will hurt less and you will find that your balance is better, your kicks are smoother and they will be stronger because the muscles are acting in the way you want them to.
     
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  11. Brmty2002

    Brmty2002 Orange Belt

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    This I agree with. But if I may add to it, practice. I know this is a 5 year olds recommendation but it applies to all of us.
     
  12. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    I must say I agree with you about focusing on single kicks with power as opposed to many many kicks on a bag. As you said doing the many many kicks will mostly just work the slow twitch fibers and it might build up your endurance but won't do much to develop speed and power. Instead I would say do ten kicks on the bag and focus on making them explosive. Fast and powerful. Then take a bit of a rest and do another ten fast and explosive kicks. Do maybe ten sets of this for a total of 100 kicks.

    I used to do thousands of kicks in a single workout but not so much anymore. Even with all my experience I am still learning new stuff about how to improve.

    As for you ladolcevita you say that you've got a good sidekick but you're rusty with the front kick. Since you've got a good sidekick you might want to focus on that and make it your primary kicking technique and get it as strong and as good as possible. Its better to have a few really good moves instead of many so so moves. If the sidekick works better for you than the front kick you might want to focus more on that and not use the front kick all that much.
     
  13. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    I've got a BOB. It doesn't take up much space and I find it very useful.
     
  14. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    I've got a tree stump, it takes up a lot of space, but its outside so it doesn't really matter
     
  15. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw your post count and was curious about how you have a third the amount of posts as me, when I've been on this site for two years, and your just shy of 2 months. Then I realized most of your posts are posts like this, and now it makes sense.
     
  16. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    That's over simplified. When you practice kicks there are many different types of kicking drills you can do. It helps to get into specifics.
     
  17. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Some people just post a lot in a short amount of time.

    I know "a lot" isn't good grammar but what the heck.
     
  18. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    just passing on a useful tip, tree stumps are excellent training,aids for kicking power. However apart from the space issue, they can also take a hundred years or more to obtain. So they may not be practical for every one. But then tree abound in public places so you may be able to use one of these. If tree kicking isn't illegal in your state.check with the sheriff's department
     
  19. Juany118

    Juany118 Senior Master

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    I was thinking the same thing. You can't simply just put the leg out there with your muscles, you must also use a mechanism to get more of your overall mass behind the kick. One way to do that is to "sink" or "settle" into the kick. It's similar with round kick. You don't simply want to pivot on your planted leg you want to rotate the hip of the kicking leg into the target. Hard to describe but in short you need to get as much of the "M" into the "F" equation as possible.
     
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  20. JR 137

    JR 137 Grandmaster

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    Absolutely agree. And kicking the air won't teach that effectively. And unless you've got an unlimited number of partners willing to take your best shots, sparring won't truly teach that either.

    As I said in my first post here, you've got to hit things hard to learn that effectively. There's really no substitute for a good heavy bag to teach and develop stopping power. Well, maybe cows hanging in a meat locker like Rocky used to hit might be better. And you'll help your butcher tenderize the meat :)123
     
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