I think this here is way better than wing chun

[Ironbear24]

Kenpo karate is much older than kyokyushin aband had existed in Japan for a long time. James mitose brought it to Hawaii in the 1940's.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Not constantly but there's really 0 difference in kenpo then there was back then. I just don't think a system developed in the 60s can be considered for example on gun techniques there's a move to jam the gun to stop it firing but that wouldn't work today because the guns are different and work differently. I mean Im not saying you have to completely overhaul the style but times are always changing. I mean there's techniques that block a rugby tackle but with people wrestling more these days those techiques wouldn't work now as well

Okay, just to follow on the sub-thread (read: hijacking) about defining "modern", is that your litmus test? Is it just whether the style is updating to accommodate changing tactics, weapons, etc.? Or is there anything else that you'd factor in defining something as "modern"?

 

[Kickboxer101]

Kenpo karate is much older than kyokyushin aband had existed in Japan for a long time. James mitose brought it to Hawaii in the 1940's.

I'm talking about American kenpo

 

[Kickboxer101]

Okay, just to follow on the sub-thread (read: hijacking) about defining "modern", is that your litmus test? Is it just whether the style is updating to accommodate changing tactics, weapons, etc.? Or is there anything else that you'd factor in defining something as "modern"?

Just the fact that fighting has changed since those it's less the big John wayne haymakers and the knife techniques are just basic attacks but these days a lot of people know how to fight with a knife so they'd use different attacks. And this isn't me having a go at kenpo I think it's a great art and i have used some of the stuff I learnt from it in self defence as well as my kickboxing and yeah sure it's more modern than some styles but If Parker had been around today I reckon it'd look completely different but when he died no one really took over from him and everyone wanted to preserve what he taught which from my understanding is not what he wanted for kenpo (also who cares if we're highjackjng the thread it was a stupid post to start with that the ops never going to read lol)

 

[Ironbear24]

I'm talking about American kenpo

Hawaii is part of America. Kenpo is also often getting new things added to it, many Sifu all add their own things to it from their own experiences with martial arts.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Hawaii is part of America. Kenpo is also often getting new things added to it, many Sifu all add their own things to it from their own experiences with martial arts.

Yes I know but there's difference between mitose kenpo and Parkers kenpo. Mistose was called Hawaiian Kenpo, Mitose taught Parker and Parker adapted it and made American kenpo, in one of his books he said years after he opened his own school Mitose turned up to train and ed Parker was less impressed with Mitose because his stuff wasnt as realistic and parker could see holes in what he was doing so it's not the same style

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Just the fact that fighting has changed since those it's less the big John wayne haymakers and the knife techniques are just basic attacks but these days a lot of people know how to fight with a knife so they'd use different attacks. And this isn't me having a go at kenpo I think it's a great art and i have used some of the stuff I learnt from it in self defence as well as my kickboxing and yeah sure it's more modern than some styles but If Parker had been around today I reckon it'd look completely different but when he died no one really took over from him and everyone wanted to preserve what he taught which from my understanding is not what he wanted for kenpo (also who cares if we're highjackjng the thread it was a stupid post to start with that the ops never going to read lol)

I think that has been an ongoing issue in many styles. I'll leave the ryuha out of this, as I don't understand their approach so can't comment on it. For other arts, I do think every instructor should look at what they learned and make tiny adaptations. If every generation made tiny adaptations (given that a "generation" in MA is about a decade), then an art would stay current, without losing attachment to the origin. There's a place for instructors who exactly copy what and how they were taught - they make solid associate instructors working with their instructor. Those running separate programs/schools, however, should look for where there are adjustments to be made. As you point out, those adjustments aren't usually a deficiency in the original form of the art, but an attempt to use the principles of the art in a different context than the originator of that art.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I think that has been an ongoing issue in many styles. I'll leave the ryuha out of this, as I don't understand their approach so can't comment on it. For other arts, I do think every instructor should look at what they learned and make tiny adaptations. If every generation made tiny adaptations (given that a "generation" in MA is about a decade), then an art would stay current, without losing attachment to the origin. There's a place for instructors who exactly copy what and how they were taught - they make solid associate instructors working with their instructor. Those running separate programs/schools, however, should look for where there are adjustments to be made. As you point out, those adjustments aren't usually a deficiency in the original form of the art, but an attempt to use the principles of the art in a different context than the originator of that art.

One thing I do find with kenpo is there are a lot of great techniques but there's a few awful ones that simply would not work. For gift in return is a techique against a hand grab and you step behind your opponent and bring their hand through their legs, it just wouldn't work and everyone I know who does kenpo says it, I think there's a few that definentely that could be cut from the system and when people ask why we have them they say oh it's for category completion but well it's a self defence art who cares about that if it doesn't work don't teach it I couldn't care less what categories it's completing lol maybe that's just me but yeah

 

[Ironbear24]

Yes I know but there's difference between mitose kenpo and Parkers kenpo. Mistose was called Hawaiian Kenpo, Mitose taught Parker and Parker adapted it and made American kenpo, in one of his books he said years after he opened his own school Mitose turned up to train and ed Parker was less impressed with Mitose because his stuff wasnt as realistic and parker could see holes in what he was doing so it's not the same style

One thing I do find with kenpo is there are a lot of great techniques but there's a few awful ones that simply would not work. For gift in return is a techique against a hand grab and you step behind your opponent and bring their hand through their legs, it just wouldn't work and everyone I know who does kenpo says it, I think there's a few that definentely that could be cut from the system and when people ask why we have them they say oh it's for category completion but well it's a self defence art who cares about that if it doesn't work don't teach it I couldn't care less what categories it's completing lol maybe that's just me but yeah

I like gift in return, by would I do it in a fight? No. Captures twigs is an iffy technique, if you are aren't lightning fast you will be thrown to the floor pretty hard. There is one technique that uses an awkward punch the uses the middle fingers middle joint. I would rather just use a normal punch than that.

Checking the storm is probably the worst one . If you are off on that knife edge kick you could get your head bashed in with a bat.

I was unaware mitose's stuff was called Hawaiian kenpo. I though that was someone else's take on it. Thanks for that information.

 

[Ironbear24]

Oh and on a serious note how is the op not banned by now? He should only be permitted to post once he actually begins in training in something.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ok, a couple of notes.

Just what mitose trained and taught is a controversy. Some feel he was legit, and others feel he was a downright fraud and a cheat. This is an issue that cannot be fully resolved and feelings can get pretty high about it, depending on who you talk to.

Mitose never taught Ed Parker. William chow was Ed Parkers Kenpo teacher. William chow apparently learned from mitose, but again there is controversy on just what was taught and the real nature of the relationship.

There is a big lack of clarity surrounding Mitose and the Kenpo of the 1930s era, just what that was and where it came from etc.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I like gift in return, by would I do it in a fight? No. Captures twigs is an iffy technique, if you are aren't lightning fast you will be thrown to the floor pretty hard. There is one technique that uses an awkward punch the uses the middle fingers middle joint. I would rather just use a normal punch than that.

Checking the storm is probably the worst one . If you are off on that knife edge kick you could get your head bashed in with a bat.

I was unaware mitose's stuff was called Hawaiian kenpo. I though that was someone else's take on it. Thanks for that information.

Actually I might be wrong ir might be Chinese kenpo not Hawaiian but either way it was different to American kenpo

 

[Ironbear24]

Ok, a couple of notes.

Just what mitose trained and taught is a controversy. Some feel he was legit, and others feel he was a downright fraud and a cheat. This is an issue that cannot be fully resolved and feelings can get pretty high about it, depending on who you talk to.

Mitose never taught Ed Parker. William chow was Ed Parkers Kenpo teacher. William chow apparently learned from mitose, but again there is controversy on just what was taught and the real nature of the relationship.

There is a big lack of clarity surrounding Mitose and the Kenpo of the 1930s era, just what that was and where it came from etc.

Did James mitose not have his karate PhD?

 

[Kickboxer101]

Ok, a couple of notes.

Just what mitose trained and taught is a controversy. Some feel he was legit, and others feel he was a downright fraud and a cheat. This is an issue that cannot be fully resolved and feelings can get pretty high about it, depending on who you talk to.

Mitose never taught Ed Parker. William chow was Ed Parkers Kenpo teacher. William chow apparently learned from mitose, but again there is controversy on just what was taught and the real nature of the relationship.

There is a big lack of clarity surrounding Mitose and the Kenpo of the 1930s era, just what that was and where it came from etc.

Well ed Parker himself says that Mitose trained him a lot so there's that but whatever if I'm wrong I'm wrong that one was one of my problems with kenpo so much political bs and lies I don't care about all that stuff I just want to train that's why kickboxing appeals more to me we just turn up train go home not get into big discussions about who taught who or who's lineage is what or any of that.

 

[Ironbear24]

Well ed Parker himself says that Mitose trained him a lot so there's that but whatever if I'm wrong I'm wrong that one was one of my problems with kenpo so much political bs and lies I don't care about all that stuff I just want to train that's why kickboxing appeals more to me we just turn up train go home not get into big discussions about who taught who or who's lineage is what or any of that.

Yeah I never put too much care into lineage. I care more about the skill and experience of an individual.

 

[Flying Crane]

Did James mitose not have his karate PhD?

I have never ever heard that suggestion before. If such a thing even exists, I suspect it is much more modern in academia than Motose's era.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well ed Parker himself says that Mitose trained him a lot so there's that but whatever if I'm wrong I'm wrong that one was one of my problems with kenpo so much political bs and lies I don't care about all that stuff I just want to train that's why kickboxing appeals more to me we just turn up train go home not get into big discussions about who taught who or who's lineage is what or any of that.

I believe Ed Parker very specifically stated that Mitose was never his teacher, never trained him.

 

[Kickboxer101]

Yeah I never put too much care into lineage. I care more about the skill and experience of an individual.

From what I hear now ed Parkers family are charging kenpo schools to be registered with them or they won't be called official kenpo and if you don't register with them and pay the money you can't call yourself kenpo or use the badge or even hang up your grading certificates on your wall so if a guy got his black belt from ed Parker but he doesn't to be part of it he's not allowed to hang up his certificate in his school or he'll get sued,,,it's that kind of thing I don't like I don't care if it's a big official school as long as j enjoy the classes and it's taught to a good level I don't care who you associate with or your organisation as just as you have good schools and can teach them I'm happy to train there.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I believe Ed Parker very specifically stated that Mitose was never his teacher, never trained him.

It's in his book infinite insights volume 1

 

[Flying Crane]

From what I hear now ed Parkers family are charging kenpo schools to be registered with them or they won't be called official kenpo and if you don't register with them and pay the money you can't call yourself kenpo or use the badge or even hang up your grading certificates on your wall so if a guy got his black belt from ed Parker but he doesn't to be part of it he's not allowed to hang up his certificate in his school or he'll get sued,,,it's that kind of thing I don't like I don't care if it's a big official school as long as j enjoy the classes and it's taught to a good level I don't care who you associate with or your organisation as just as you have good schools and can teach them I'm happy to train there.

I don't know if there is any truth to this or not. However, I believe such attempts would be impossible to enforce, with the possible exception of the use of the name "Ed Parker" in the official name of someone's school. However, people could always make a statement about having been his student, or somewhere in the downstream of lineage traced back to him.

If the family was really trying to do this, which I rather doubt, it is a big waste of time.