I need help turning my Dojang around. (LONG POST)

[Choistic]

Do MMA.

I have thought about it. Is a UFC gym the only way to learn it?

 

[Dirty Dog]

They're nice people, but I would rather have someone who is strict and effective

There's only one person who needs to be "strict and effective" and that is you. Don't think your forms are up to your standards? Fine. Don't test. Practice more.
The idea that this needs to be enforced by anyone other than you is just plain silly.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Do you think it would be okay if I asked them to test me like how I used to test?

No. The testing standards are theirs. If you don't think you're ready to test by YOUR standards, then don't test.

 

[Gnarlie]

Do you think it would be okay if I asked them to test me like how I used to test?

Why? You are responsible for your own standard. Why do you need external affirmation?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[_Simon_]

Thank you so much for answering Buka.
That dojang was the place that helped me to recover after my suicide attempt. It is like a second home to me.

There's been some great responses so far. Can understand how hard it may be... I've had to leave my old dojo (not for the same reason, but due to feeling I need to move on from this style), and to be honest it was heartbreaking... Alot more emotional than I thought it'd be! But I knew in my heart it was the right decision. It was like leaving close family. But as hard as it was, I had to do it.

So you'll definitely have alot of emotional stuff to process if you decide to move on... it'll be a matter of allowing yourself to feel whatever it is you're feeling. Very deep stuff may surface, but remind yourself of just how far you've come, how much strength you've realised within yourself, and accepting any grief that comes up and allow yourself to feel and process that. Some people may see that a dojang or style change is no big deal, but when you spend that many hours in a place, and you've grown, evolved, and learned so much about yourself here (now being such a different person to when you started), built deep connection and friendship and shared many tough, enduring experiences with these people, it's not easy!

But like it was said earlier you can try another dojang in the same style if it's available. Otherwise a change of scenery may be for the best

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks for your reply Headhunter.
That is true. I can leave if I want. It is just that the place has given me a chance to change my life around. I know that people might say it is "Bullshido" to say that staying because of "dojang loyalty", but I can't really bring myself to do it.

I would argue most of the loyalty you owe is to the person who helped you (the master who has left) and to the training you benefited from (which doesn't seem to exist at that dojang now). If that dojang doesn't meet your needs now, you can move on without disrespecting or being disloyal in any way. Nearly everyone here has moved on at least once from a dojo/dojang/gym they felt loyal to, for any number of reasons. Many of us still have strong ties to those places and the people still there, though we've moved on.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have thought about it. Is a UFC gym the only way to learn it?

You don't need a UFC-branded gym. There are plenty of good places that teach MMA-related material. It's unlikely any will be as traditional as you are used to - and you seem to enjoy that level tradition and formality - so keep that in mind. But one thing you should be able to count on at a gym that prepares MMA fighters (even if you don't compete): they will call you on your crap. And that's really what you seem to have liked about the testing you went through - you had to do it really well, or they'd point out the errors for you. MMA folks will have a different way about that (most don't do ranks, so no formal testing), but they'll do it, nonetheless.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There's only one person who needs to be "strict and effective" and that is you. Don't think your forms are up to your standards? Fine. Don't test. Practice more.
The idea that this needs to be enforced by anyone other than you is just plain silly.

Some folks benefit (both skill-wise and personally) from the added external structure. For some folks, it can be somewhat therapeutic.

 

[mrt2]

Talk to your instructors and the chief instructor. Respectfully. They will be interested what their membership's wishes are, and the fact that you are passionate about what you do will never be bad news to any instructor.

I tend to look for this kind of attitude - it's the sign of a future instructor. I tend to train people differently when they are passionate and serious about what they are learning.

Modern expectations and lifestyles have led to what I would call a 'layering' within TKD - there are people who view it as a hobby, and people who view it as more than that, to the point of it being a lifestyle. A hobbyist will never be as good as a lifer of the equivalent grade. Grade is not absolute, and each grade has a huge bandwidth from acceptable minimum to overqualification.

Skills are absolute. You either can or you can't. Be a lifer, and don't compare yourself to others, especially hobbyists. Hold yourself to a higher standard, and hold your future students too it too. The problem only exists if you worry about what other people are doing. Get your own house in order and keep it that way. You will find that other lifers will be drawn to you, and instructors will treat you differently.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

That is an interesting point. Though we tend to idealize the values of the old school, I would wager this tension between maintaining high standards and teaching Martial Arts for profit likely predates TKD itself. Think about it. It is sort of arbitrary that we have a belt system were promotion goes from 10th gup, or beginner up to 1st Dan and beyond. It stands to reason that those ranks will mean different things to different people.

 

[mrt2]

(Originally Posted on Reddit)
I need help turning my Dojang around. (LONG POST) • r/martialarts


When he was around, we always had a chance to fail our belt tests. Our belt tests were categorized into several parts. Those were Poomsae, Sparring, Board Breaking, Self-Defense, and learning Korean.

He was very strict on Poomsae, requiring that we had the form memorized TO THE TEETH. In Taegeuk 4, for example, if someone's backfoot was not parallel to their front foot in a Apgubi (앞굽이) sogi, he or she had a penalty for his or her Poomsae. (Our form tests were based on him and other masters scoring us).

For sparring, we had to win to receive our next ranks. I failed several times trying to promote myself to the next rank by not scoring enough points during sparring. Even as I failed, each failure would teach me something about my sparring style. My master would comment that I was too slow or that I kicked too low or even that I exhausted myself and even gave me very good tips on how to improve my shortcomings. For example, I have low stamina. He put me to stamina training exercises like speed kicking and ladder footwork.

In board breaking, we had a set of hand and foot techniques that we had to master in order to pass to the next rank. If we were able to execute the technique correctly, we would pass. If we couldn't do it (like me in trying to do a tornado kick during my blue belt test), then we would fail. We would then be required to break the board with that specific technique. If we did, we passed. If we did not, we failed. We also had to use those techniques in a self defense setting. For example, to apply Taegeuk 1, I had to use the down block and roundhouse kick combination to the chest on my master and successfully strike my master (who had a hogu on) and counter his strikes by either dodging or blocking. Testing for application of Poomsae was one of my most favorite parts of the entire test.

For the last requirement, my master wanted us to learn Korean. I will admit that in the beginning it was a bit easy for me to do since I am Korean and it seemed to me that it was a bit unnecessary. But after a while, I understood why he wanted us to. When I went to my first sparring tournament, some of the judges were in fact Korean and barely spoke any English. Growing up, I never heard of commands like "Gam-Jeon" or colors like "Chong" or "Hon". Thanks to him, my teammates and I were able to understand any referee's shout. For Poomsae tournaments, our master drilled us in the Sino-Korean and Korean number system. He also told each of the techniques in English and Korean. He also drilled us in basic phrases like Hello, Goodbye, Ready, At Ease. He even taught us the word for Master, Dojang, Taegeuk, and even told the meaning of the phrase that we said in Korean to the flag. 차렷! 국기에 대하여! 경례! (Attention! Salute the flag! At ease!)



Choistic

I just have a few questions about how things used to be. Some of these things make sense. Others, maybe not so much, at least if you are hoping to run a commercially viable TKD school.

1. The possibility of failing belt tests. - I am right with you on this. But I don't think failure should be common or expected, but for sure, if you mess up a form, or fail to break a board, or mess up on curicullum, maybe you should fail. My view is, if more than 10% of those testing are failing, something is wrong. Students should be prepared to test, and if they are not, they should not be testing.

2. Strict grading on forms - Yes, for sure. Some Martial Arts don't do forms, but if you do forms, they should be done correctly. I, too, hate when I see egregious mistakes made in forms. That said, there is sloppy, and there is bad enough to fail. Hopefully, you weed out the really bad mistakes in class.

3. Sparring - Proficiency makes sense, but really? If your testers spar against each other, you are saying that half the testing group has to fail every time, and that makes no sense. What if you run into strong fighters over 2 or more testing cycles?

4. Board breaking. With you there, if board breaking is something you do at tests.. If you do board breaking, you should be able to break the board to pass. My school does board breaking as part of the test, so that is fine. That said, I guess I am agnostic on this point. I wouldn't care if my school dropped the board breaking and replaced it with something else. But it isn't a big deal either, since I have no problem generating the power to break a 1" board.

5. An ability to speak Korean. Really? Unless you plan to live in Korea or work with Korean speakers, this strikes me as odd. Not that there is anything wrong with learning a foreign language, but seriously, that is appealing to maybe 1 in 10,000 people who are not Korean speakers to walk into a TKD dojang.

 

[Tez3]

I have thought about it. Is a UFC gym the only way to learn it?

MMA gyms teach MMA, there's lots of them. Some gyms have been teaching MMA for a very long time. 'UFC' gyms are a relatively new thing.

 

[mrt2]

You don't need a UFC-branded gym. There are plenty of good places that teach MMA-related material. It's unlikely any will be as traditional as you are used to - and you seem to enjoy that level tradition and formality - so keep that in mind. But one thing you should be able to count on at a gym that prepares MMA fighters (even if you don't compete): they will call you on your crap. And that's really what you seem to have liked about the testing you went through - you had to do it really well, or they'd point out the errors for you. MMA folks will have a different way about that (most don't do ranks, so no formal testing), but they'll do it, nonetheless.

Pretty sure they won't emphasize speaking Korean at MMA gyms.

 

[WaterGal]

As a student, you can't change the school you attend. It's not your place to make that change. You can talk to the instructors or school owner and let them know that you have some concerns with their new methods and are thinking about leaving because of them. But it's up to them whether or not to make those changes.

 

[drop bear]

I have thought about it. Is a UFC gym the only way to learn it?

No.
XFC Narre Warren - Mixed Martial Arts (MMA), Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (BJJ), Muay Thai / Kickboxing, Boxing


You would need a decent grappling instructor. But there are a few TKDers moving in to MMA.

As soon as your training is results based. (Poor martial arts resulting in getting bashed and embarrassed in front of your friends and family)

Your training motivation improves.

 

[drop bear]

There's only one person who needs to be "strict and effective" and that is you. Don't think your forms are up to your standards? Fine. Don't test. Practice more.
The idea that this needs to be enforced by anyone other than you is just plain silly.

It takes a village.

 

[drop bear]

You don't need a UFC-branded gym. There are plenty of good places that teach MMA-related material. It's unlikely any will be as traditional as you are used to - and you seem to enjoy that level tradition and formality - so keep that in mind. But one thing you should be able to count on at a gym that prepares MMA fighters (even if you don't compete): they will call you on your crap. And that's really what you seem to have liked about the testing you went through - you had to do it really well, or they'd point out the errors for you. MMA folks will have a different way about that (most don't do ranks, so no formal testing), but they'll do it, nonetheless.

Or is it strictness discipline and a common goal?

I mean I am not up at 6am this morning to do rounds because I like missing sleep ins.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Or is it strictness discipline and a common goal?

I mean I am not up at 6am this morning to do rounds because I like missing sleep ins.

Yeah, I think that's another way to express it. I think that common goal is part of what builds the sense of community I've seen in MMA gyms I've visited. I think the common goal is better-defined (and, perhaps, more common?) on average in MMA gyms.

 

[JR 137]

MMA gyms teach MMA, there's lots of them. Some gyms have been teaching MMA for a very long time. 'UFC' gyms are a relatively new thing.

UFC Gym is a chain gym here in the US. It used to be called LA Boxing. I haven’t been in one since the change/buyout/whatever happened, and the one near me closed. It used to be big on group fitness like cardio kickboxing. There are a lot of hanging Muay Thai heavy bags, trainers do individual/private lessons with a good amount of pad work, stuff like that. They had a boxing ring and would have some matches.

I went into my local one before I joined my current dojo. A trainer took me through a private workout hitting focus mitts and the heavy bag. He had competed in Muay Thai at some level. Seemed like a nice and genuine guy. The price was a bit higher than even the commercial dojos though. Multi-year contracts, down payments, etc. I could see someone really getting a lot out of it and enjoying it, but it wasn’t my cup of tea. Especially for the price. I’d have joined as a supplement to my training if the price was right though. A perfect world would’ve been my dojo as a separate room inside their facility, giving access to both for an affordable price.

I’m pretty sure they closed here due to price. There are several former pro boxers in the area doing essentially the same thing for around half (or less) than what they were charging.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Some folks benefit (both skill-wise and personally) from the added external structure. For some folks, it can be somewhat therapeutic.

One of the 5 tenets of Taekwondo is Self Discipline. Not discipline imposed from without.

 

[Buka]

Thank you so much for answering Buka.
That dojang was the place that helped me to recover after my suicide attempt. It is like a second home to me.

As it should be.

But perhaps what helped you was martial Arts itself. Many of us here have walked in your shoes. If you believe that this Martial thing might be a long time pursuit, you should think about what a vast world it is out there. A lot of it right at your very fingertips.

What you might want to do is take a couple of weeks off and visit every place in easy driving distance and spend a couple of nights watching in each and every dojo. Maybe you'll realize you are already in the best place for you, maybe you'll be intrigued by something, you'll definitely see things you haven't seen before, which is always a good thing. What ever the case, it's good experience. And, brother, it's fun.

Just food for thought.