Human Race will Split into Two Species...

[Makalakumu]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ogy.html?in_article_id=489653&in_page_id=1965

The human race will one day split into two separate species, an attractive, intelligent ruling elite and an underclass of dim-witted, ugly goblin-like creatures, according to a top scientist.



100,000 years into the future, sexual selection could mean that two distinct breeds of human will have developed.
The alarming prediction comes from evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry from the London School of Economics, who says that the human race will have reached its physical peak by the year 3000.

So, was the Time Machine way ahead of its time?

 

[bydand]

If you ask some of the upper crust, they will tell you it already has happened.

As soon as I read this I thought of the "Time Machine" as well. Wow, the Eloi, and the Morlocks are our future according to this guy. And it only going to take another 100,000 years, didn't HG Wells have the Time Traveler going like 800,000 years?

 

[Andy Moynihan]

At this point, things going as they are, I believe it is overly, and perhaps even naively, optimistic to believe the human race will last more than one or two more generations at best.

 

[exile]

Huh????

Species split as a result of partitions in gene pools, typically as a result of environmental barriers. Populations separated from each other develop local specializations which over time lead to genotypic differences deep enough to result in mutual infertility between the groups. Is there a single word in all the futurobabble in the story about just how this process is going to take place in a world where poplulations move around so easily that genetic isolation is essentially a fantasy, at this point?

BTW, that's not a new state of affairs. An old friend and colleague of mine, a physical anthropologist specializing in genetics, used to like to point out to his classes that DNA tests on New Guinea pygmy groups—arguably the most isolated people in the world—yielded gene frequencies that were almost indistinguishable from those of northern Scandinavians. We've all been around the block, lots and lots of times over the past couple of million years, and partied hearty nonstop, it looks like. What is the evidence that all of a sudden this is going to come to an end??

 

[Phoenix44]

We've all been around the block, lots and lots of times over the past couple of million years, and partied hearty nonstop, it looks like.

You're funny.

 

[exile]

You're funny.

Well, given the original `news' story, it's that or start sobbing uncontrollably...

 

[Sukerkin]

I might not be quite so pessimistic as Andy in that I think that humanity will survive in some form for quite a while but that civilisation is on the slippery slope down to the beginning again if we're not careful.

As to the core of the OP, isn't it a tenet of the new, improved, evolutionary theory that changes occur in the genes of every creature type more or less constantly and that environmental (and/or social) pressures merely add additional vector for variation?

 

[newGuy12]

Well, given the original `news' story, it's that or start sobbing uncontrollably...

:lol:


And Andy, you are right. There's no way that we will still be around 100,000 years from now. No way.

 

[newGuy12]

I might not be quite so pessimistic as Andy in that I think that humanity will survive in some form for quite a while but that civilisation is on the slippery slope down to the beginning again if we're not careful.

Right, this is about the same thing, after all. Some kind of horrible catastrophe will occur, and kill almost everyone, save a few who will eek out an existance, in a fashion like "Water World", or "Mad Max" or some such movie.

 

[Makalakumu]

Why couldn't cultural differences, especially between the widening lower class and narrowing upper class, eventually develop into a partition? Especially when the latter can always afford the latest gene manipulation/life extension technology that is developed?

 

[Xue Sheng]

The Human Race will Split into Two Species???

Didn't that happen once already?

 

[tellner]

You're funny.

He's also right. One of our distinguishing characteristics is our tendency to screw anything with remotely the right shape and number of limbs. And even that's negotiable in certain parts. The bonobos may be team promiscuity champions, but we're in a strong second place. The idea that we would undergo behavioral reproductive isolation is just plain crazy.

I'm an Eastern European Jew with a dose of Romany somewhere in there. Those are two cultures which make a religion (literally) out of staying separate from their neighbors. My wife has Chinese, African, Native American and European ancestry. We're hoping that any kids we have will marry Basque San Dravidians so we can complete the set

 

[Steel Tiger]

As Exile has already pointed out it takes serious geographic isolation for speciation to occur. In the case of the Eloi and Morlocks from The Time Machine such as a serparation existed in that one group was forced to lived underground and the other above. Is Dr Curry suggesting that different socio-economic groups will acually be physically separated?!

We have seen social differentiation and separation throughout human history and prehistory. The Hindu caste system is a good example. It has existed for at least 3000 years and members of the different castes have been encouraged to only marry within their own caste. But the castes were not physically separated from each other, there are even rules about caste mobility. And really, when you come right down to it, you cannot tell the caste of a Hindic Indian from their physical appearance (maybe from what they are wearing, but that's different).

HG Wells envisioned a Metropolis-like future for mankind in which the workers and the elite were simply not allowed contact, of any kind, with each other. Over the course of a few hundred thousand years such conditions might produce speciation. But if the separation is merely social convention and looking down ones nose at another person then it is not going to happen.

However, some Dr Curry's other speculation is very likely. The human species becoming taller and developing a strong homogeneity in appearance are very possible outcomes of the massive movement in and of populations nowadays.

 

[Big Don]

Dr Curry is a political science professor at the London School of Economics. Not the guy I would go to for hard science, but, then look how many people take Al Gore seriously...
This study was conducted for BRAVO, home of such scholarly works as Queer Eye For The Straight Guy, West Wing Re-runs and James Lipton.
This isn't science, its plagiarism of science fiction.

 

[tellner]

You just can't resist bashing Gore, can you?

*sigh*

Gore did not claim to do the science. He reported the results of real scientists and used their conclusions (with attribution). This guy pulled speculation out of his butt and called it science.

As far as it goes, Gore was absolutely 100% 200 proof right when he started beating the ozone drum during the Bush I Administration. The dimwits on the Right made fun of "Senator Ozone". But he followed the science and ended up being vindicated. At least among thinking people.

It's the same thing with the climate change writings. We have the data. It's robust. It comes from several different sources. The near term predictions have been borne out. If anything, they were overly optimistic. But the Republican War on Science continues apace. It actually is an inconvenient truth, so they do the standard drill:

First they deny.
Then they lie.
Then they say it's junk science.
Then they say it's 'controversial'.
Then they attack the messenger.
Then they say it would be too expensive to do anything about it.
Then the say "Tough. You're screwed. But the money's in the bank, and it's your own fault."

 

[Tez3]

We already have it here, there's the rest of the world then there's Middlesborough. It's about half an hour away from where I live and a million miles. Recently voted the worst place in the UK to live in, it has to be seen to be believed lol. It's not a slum or ghetto it's just the mind set of the people there!

 

[MA-Caver]

Huh????

Species split as a result of partitions in gene pools, typically as a result of environmental barriers. Populations separated from each other develop local specializations which over time lead to genotypic differences deep enough to result in mutual infertility between the groups. Is there a single word in all the futurobabble in the story about just how this process is going to take place in a world where poplulations move around so easily that genetic isolation is essentially a fantasy, at this point?

BTW, that's not a new state of affairs. An old friend and colleague of mine, a physical anthropologist specializing in genetics, used to like to point out to his classes that DNA tests on New Guinea pygmy groups—arguably the most isolated people in the world—yielded gene frequencies that were almost indistinguishable from those of northern Scandinavians. We've all been around the block, lots and lots of times over the past couple of million years, and partied hearty nonstop, it looks like. What is the evidence that all of a sudden this is going to come to an end??

I agree that a species split of humans is just a fantasy. The only real way for that to happen is a one time colonization of say, Mars with no further input from the mother planet ... over the course of several generations (read: like 100+ years) will species differences start to appear and then another say 1000 years for they could be truly called Martians as long as they don't breed with any Earth humans. But for that to happen successfully the colonization population would have to number in the several hundreds to create a diverse enough gene pool to begin with so that inbreeding isn't much of a risk ... lak it iz in certain parts o' Wes' Virginiee an Ken-tuckee. :uhyeah: Ya'll know whut am tawlking 'bout dun't cha?

 

[Rich Parsons]

Huh????

Species split as a result of partitions in gene pools, typically as a result of environmental barriers. Populations separated from each other develop local specializations which over time lead to genotypic differences deep enough to result in mutual infertility between the groups. Is there a single word in all the futurobabble in the story about just how this process is going to take place in a world where poplulations move around so easily that genetic isolation is essentially a fantasy, at this point?

BTW, that's not a new state of affairs. An old friend and colleague of mine, a physical anthropologist specializing in genetics, used to like to point out to his classes that DNA tests on New Guinea pygmy groups—arguably the most isolated people in the world—yielded gene frequencies that were almost indistinguishable from those of northern Scandinavians. We've all been around the block, lots and lots of times over the past couple of million years, and partied hearty nonstop, it looks like. What is the evidence that all of a sudden this is going to come to an end??

Sir,

Is the quoted researcher the same that stated the Africans and those of their heritage have a lower IQ due to genetics? Or is this a different Britsh Professor looking to get into the press?


et al,
Isolation in today's culture would be almost impossible. As to separation of people for breeding stock, well I think that as long as there are pretty women in the lower and middle income groups, there will be rich men who will seek them out and they will have continued to avoid the isolation. I mean even at the height of racism in this country with slavery, there were men who slept with their pretty slaves. (* Note: I do not support racism. I am not calling anyone a racist. I am not saying it was wrong for them to sleep around based upon their race/color/religion what have you. I do not support slavery in any form, so one coudl say it was wrong for them to sleep with those under their care. The comment though is only a reference point to history. *)

 

[Blotan Hunka]

HAHAHAHA!!! What a joke. What has the world become where we start making news out of cable TV shows? Its the whole snake eating its tail motif.

 

[exile]

Sir,

Is the quoted researcher the same that stated the Africans and those of their heritage have a lower IQ due to genetics? Or is this a different Britsh Professor looking to get into the press?

Different guy, Rich. The one you're thinking of (I think) is James Watson, codiscoverer of the double helical structure of DNA (and cowinner of the Nobel Prize for that discovery). This guy is apparently some political scientist at—where was it? The London School of Economics? I was relieved to learn the guy's no biologist—you'd hope someone who actually knew something about demographics and genetics would be a little more cautious in making loopy predictions like that...

Here's an interesting exercise: take the social and economic organization of England in the year 1000, and the social and economic organization of England in the year 2007, and chart the differences in technology, economic activity, the organization of work, patterns of settlement and residence.... the lot. Now do a little thought experiment: imagine going back to the city of, oh, say York in the year 1000 and asking every single person in the city what life would be like a thousand years later. And then try and imagine even one of them being even vaguely, minutely right. Now why should we think that this guy has any better chance of being right about events 1,000, let alone 10,000 years in the future? Given how unexpected things are—hell, could our parents in the 1950s even visualize the impact of personal computers on the organization of the economy a measely half century and some change later??—why are we not simply reading what this guy has to say, rolling our eyes rolleyes and then bursting out laughing lol for a bit before going on the next newstory, about the two-headed boy reared by wolves or whatever else of similar plausiblity the National Enquirer Channel news team has been able to uncover?...