How you use a staff...

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by geezer, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    It's easy to tell that the northern CMA staff form has different flavor than the southern CMA staff form.


     
  2. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
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  3. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Blindside: Thanks for those awesome Dog Brothers clips. Lonely Dog is amazing. That's some real stickfighting.
     
  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Their staff fighting is more like long sword definitely not CMA
     
  5. hoshin1600

    hoshin1600 Senior Master

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    so from what i see in the escrima video he is using a rattan staff. the weight of the staff is super light. this allows multiple hits and you can reverse your direction, pulling back to hit again. the TKD student is most likely used to a version derived from Okinawan Bo use. these are thick heavy oak by comparison. you cant use the two weapons the same. if i tried to imitate what i saw in that video my joints would be killing me after a few hours of practice not to mention the vibration in my hands would make my hands numb.
    with oak weapons im not a big fan of smashing the weapons together like shown in the clip. im not going to critique the clip but i would suspect your students past is a reflection of the training methodology for the more solid heavier weapon.
     
  6. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Dog Brothers Gatherings aren't style specific, though most of the fighters come from a FMA dominated background. Some of them do not like Gong Fu Dog
     
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  7. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree! those clips look more like Ancient European double hands sword technique. Those sword can be as long as 6 feet.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    In the Filipino martial arts, rattan is used for training, while hardwoods (like bahi and kamagong) were reserved for fighting. You might draw a rough parallel to the use of shinai versus boken. Rattan is cheap, strong and can be used to bash stick against stick in training, where as hardwood can break and even shatter. So the real objective is not to hit the stick, but your opponent. The video that I posted at the beginning wasn't advocating stick smashing! It did illustrate a different approach to generating explosive power though.

    BTW, although rattan is generally lighter than hardwoods, it does vary depending on type and density. The larger rattan staffs we have used, especially the 7 foot by 1 3/4 in. raw, unskinned rattan are pretty hefty, and weigh more than the typical 6 foot oak bo with tapered ends that are sold at our local martial arts supply store. Actually, my concern about my student was that, for a much bigger guy than I am, he was not so effective at power generation, especially with the heavier staff.

    Incidentally, I personally have scaled back to a somewhat lighter 6 foot by 1 1/2 inch raw rattan staff to save wear and tear on my joints. So your point is well taken. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Thanks. For the video That's definitely CMA. The swings aren't big, lots of stabs, and combo attacks. With CMA systems (not sure about the others) If I see one attack coming then I can assume that 2 or 3 more will follow soon after. The big swings are reserved for multiple opponents.

    The most difficult thing I've ever had to deal with a staff training was to avoid the second attack within a combo.
     
  10. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    I just re-read this thread and this last comment caught my eye. I agree completely, and it's because the first strike is often a set up. If you react and block it, you are that much more open for next attack in the combo ...and especially with a staff or spear held at one end. That's because with the one-end grip the attacker can move the tip of a long weapon very fast. Often faster than the defender can react can respond. Check out the first segment of the following video from about 1:45 -2:30. Regardless of whatever weapon you are using, the tip of a spear or staff is too fast to "chase".



    One way to solve this problem of dealing with the second strike in a combo is to steal the offence. Make your defense offensive.

    In Wing Chun we often talk about lin siu di dar or "simultaneous defense and attack", and also say, da sau juk si siu sau or "attacking hand is defending hand". This strategy isn't just for empty hands work. Its in the WC long pole, luk dim boon kwun. Similarly, in Latosa Escrima, while evasion (not blocking) and simultaneous counterstriking is optimal, when we do "block" we try to employ what we call interference striking. That is, we make the defending move into the attacking move.

    If you can effectively counter the initial attack with a simultaneous and aggressive counterattack, you have just pre-empted the second strike in your opponent's combo. Now he has to contend with your combo!
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019 at 2:02 PM
  11. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Very interesting and entertaining video, thanks for sharing that.
    In Chinese martial arts, spear is often called “king of weapons” because it is so effective. Two-man weapon sets are often spear vs. another weapon, because the spear is the primary weapon to beat.

    I love the spear, I think it is tremendously effective. In the video, the use of spear and shield together was not terribly effective. Wielding a spear with one hand is very clumsy, so that is not surprising. I wonder if a small shield, perhaps buckler-sized, and maybe oblong, attached to each of the forearms, leaving both hands free to continue with a two-handed technique, could have been effective. It could provide for some blocking and deflecting capabilities, without mandating a full commitment to a less effective single-handed technique with the spear.
     

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