How should *Grandmaster* title be handled?

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
I think there should be only ONE grandmaster in any system.
All others in the system must take a back seat and wait their time.
I belive this title should only be used IF a system has been in exsistance for 50 -100 years minimun. I know thats a big jump in years but If you create the system and it exsists for 50 years and your still alive take the title if you didnt create it take the title of head instructor and Whomever is head instuctor at 100 years can begin the succession of Grandmaster.
There are to many claiming the title in organisations 1-2 yars old.
If your organisation has not surrived a minimun of 50 years its not a system yet its still in its infancy and growing stage of becomeing a system
Titles such as head instructor, instructor of masters, master, instructor of teachers, teacher can all be used at lower levels.
just my thought on the matter

If that is true then what would Great People like Ed Parker or Morihei Ueshiba, Founder of Aikido be considered. Since Ed Parker was the founder of American Kenpo Karate and Morihei Ueshiba, Founder of Aikido ?

 

[someguy]

The title should be handled with a 6 foot pole. Or maybe a six and a half point pole. Yeah that sounds right.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Originally posted by someguy
The title should be handled with a 6 foot pole. Or maybe a six and a half point pole. Yeah that sounds right.

Good idea......... lol

or maybe a 9 or 18 foot spear lol

 

[parkerkarate]

This title should be given to the closest student to the Grandmaster, in this case Mr. Parker had made his choice and that should be final. We should respect his choice and not challange it.

 

[RCastillo]

Originally posted by parkerkarate
This title should be given to the closest student to the Grandmaster, in this case Mr. Parker had made his choice and that should be final. We should respect his choice and not challange it.

Who was his choice?:asian:

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by parkerkarate
This title should be given to the closest student to the Grandmaster, in this case Mr. Parker had made his choice and that should be final. We should respect his choice and not challange it.

Yes, which choice is that ?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

I am sure Mr. Parker was going to tell everyone as soon as he got back from the airport.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Roflmao ........... RIGHT!!!!!!!

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by parkerkarate
This title should be given to the closest student to the Grandmaster, in this case Mr. Parker had made his choice and that should be final. We should respect his choice and not challange it.

I'll request for a 2nd time.....

Please tell who you are referring to when you stated........

" Mr. Parker had made his choice and that should be final"

I'm am really curious now since you have avoided answering the question.....



:asian:

 

[Rick Wade]

I think Ole FatKenpoa was being sarcastic (-2 pt for spelling) I'm not sure but I think as far as anyone knows Mr. Parker had not settled on that question.

Just my opinion

Rick

 

[parkerkarate]

there was a long story told to me about why Mr. Palanas or Mr. Tracy, I can't remember which one, got the ranking of grandmaster instead of Mr. Palanzo. BUt Mr. Parker made a choice and he must of had a reason behind it so I am not worrying about it.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by parkerkarate
there was a long story told to me about why Mr. Palanas or Mr. Tracy, (I can't remember which one), got the ranking of grandmaster instead of Mr. Palanzo.

That would be an interesting story -- Who told you that story?

Fact is ..... Mr. Parker <<<< NEVER >>>> gave the Ranking of GrandMaster to anyone, although many wanted it!!

Originally posted by parkerkarate
But Mr. Parker made a choice and he must of had a reason behind it so I am not worrying about it.

Well, I DISAGREE with you!! Mr. Parker did not make any such choice. I suggest you research your facts better before making such an absurd statement in public where individuals that were there for years with Mr. Parker read and share information on our wonderful system. If what you say had even a "shred of accuracy" the Kenpo Community would have heard about it 14 years ago!

I find it interesting that nearly 14 years after his passing some attempt to warp or re-write history for their own benefit.

Sorry to burst your bubble........

:asian:

 

[parkerkarate]

Well then I was told wrong and thank you for telling me. I think I have some reading up to do then. Thank you.

 

[parkerkarate]

For all of those that I affended I am sorry. I was wrong with my history, I think I will read Mr. Parkers books again to clear everything up with all of what I say. Sorry again.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by parkerkarate
For all of those that I affended I am sorry. I was wrong with my history, I think I will read Mr. Parkers books again to clear everything up with all of what I say. Sorry again.

Not necessary to apologize, but thanks.

:asian:

 

[TIGER DRAGON FIGHT]

grandmaster to me is still a mystery and a wonder as to what goes on when you've been studying that long. i always thought it should be given out to an individual who has mastered the art, himself and life. who gives it to you? i always thought it should be passed on by either your instructor or a panel of fellow colleagues who believe in you and what you have contributed to the art and everybody around you. i'm so far away from that moment in time that those who have acheived 10th dan i look to them and see and experiance what they have to offer so that i can look forward to that moment.:jedi1:

 

[Shogun]

I agree with the idea that it should:

Only be for the Founder, but I believe one can be the GM if they recieve it from the founder. Like a Sokeship. a word that is used too often.

 

[Kosho-Monk]

I was thinking about this and I have these thoughts.

It seems to be that we could simply use a family type structure as a standard. The son/daughter is the student, the father/mother is the teacher/master and the grandfather/grandmother is the grandmaster.

This of course implies that there is really only one "teacher/master" (father/mother) in the school. Only one person within a school should be the authority of what is taught within its walls.

The grandfather/grandmother role would be to see over the several schools that were under their charge. They would basically make sure that the "family values" are still being passed on to the grandkids.

Within one organization there would be only one grandmaster and perhaps several masters. (each master would have their own school and own students) Everyone else (even the black belts that assisted the master) would be considered students. Perhaps one student (or a couple maybe) who stood out from all the rest could have some kind of "you're special" designation within the school.

I think one of the problems today (and believe me I fall into this many times) is that we forget that within different organizations there are different rules and standards. And that's ok. Maybe someone should start up a yearly tournament in which schools come together to compete for bragging rights for the whole next year! It would have to be different than what's out there today as we would want to focus more on martial skills and not acrobats.

(Side Note: my teacher once told me that in the "old days" a student who one first place in kata would then have to explain the meaning behind the moves. If they could not explain them to the satisfaction of the panel, they would not be considered the winner.)

Just like in ancient times, there were masters who were better than other masters. Usually this was decided by some kind of fight in which the survivor was declared more skillful. Today we don't do that because the winner would go to jail!

And let's not forget about those "rebel" students (or masters) that decided to go off on their own and start up their own group. When they did that they were automatically declared grandmaster of their group. The only way to dispute that would be for someone to challenge them to a public dual - winner takes all.

Anyway, I've typed way to much. Sorry for the long read, I'm on my lunch break!


-John

 

[Kosho-Monk]

Oh, one other point... sorry.

I think it's kind of odd to have some other organization grant you "permission" to be the grandmaster of your art. If it's yours, it's yours. And if it's not, then go get your own if you want to be grandmaster. And if there's some kind of dispute then put it out to the students and let them decide who they wish to be led by. Some may want one and some the other. At that point you now have two groups with similar thoughts - but two separate groups. They should each rename what the call themselves and move on.

I would say that by leaving it up to some 3rd party organization it just opens the door to many problems.

It's just like getting ranked by some 3rd party org. It's great on one hand, but really not necessary. If your students don't care then that's all that really matters. Your teacher can't reject you because if you had one you wouldn't be getting ranked from this 3rd party org.

I say when you are the teacher of your school, with no teacher of your own, simply move beyond rank and just call yourself the master of the school. If you feel like you deserve to be grandmaster, then do it. You'll be judged by others, expect that, but let history be the real judge. If your school branches out and before you're dead you have several masters passing on your teachings, then you really are/were the grandmaster. If your school ends when your dead.... who cares..... you're dead.

Peace!


-John

 

[Karazenpo]

John stated: I say when you are the teacher of your school, with no teacher of your own, simply move beyond rank and just call yourself the master of the school. If you feel like you deserve to be grandmaster, then do it. You'll be judged by others, expect that, but let history be the real judge. If your school branches out and before you're dead you have several masters passing on your teachings, then you really are/were the grandmaster. If your school ends when your dead.... who cares..... you're dead.

I say: Funny John, but you make a lot of sense, the common type. I think that's how it had been done, more or less way back when. I read once that back in the old Okinawan days the teacher of a school, just a school, was essentially the 'shihan' or 'master instructor' of that school, then there were the 'yudansha' ( the advanced students) and the rest, I guess,the beginners. It was just plain and simple. I'm going to try to find that article again to refresh but that was the core of it. So, I guess, if someone goes out and 'successfully' starts their own school or chain of schools, independant of anyone else, then who would be higher in their school and/or organization but them? Tony Annesi wrote a nice article about that in a karate mag back in the 80's. And to paraphrase John Evans, 'time will either promote you or expose you'. I'm not saying this is how I do things, I'm just saying I thought it was a very interesting post by John and he does make logical sense out of the whole freak'n mess, lol.