How should *Grandmaster* title be handled?

[webpage20022003]

Please VOTE because your vote is counted even though you DON'T care or DISAGREE with other OR don't want to tell other which option you VOTED.

If your friends are in Kempo/Kenpo community, please tell them to vote as well.

This POLL should not be limited to American Kenpo. I would like to see everybody who learns Kempo/Kenpo should be able to have their say by voting

Again, you don't have to tell anybody which OPTION you CHOSE.

If you have an opinion, please feel free to express it. Keep your idea and mind FLOWING.

Thank you very much for participating.

 

[webpage20022003]

This POLL will be ENDED on 5/31/03 because there is no reason to keep this POLL run for YEARS.

Please vote if you hadn't done so. It would be nice to see more people to vote.

:asian:

 

[webpage20022003]

does anybody have an opinion about option number 5 "None of the above" ?

what am i asking is what *Area* "none of the above" includes or covers ?

when we answer this question, it will help other have a better understand so that they can vote.

Keep the discussion going and keep the idea flowing as well.

Don't forget to remind other to vote Many thanks

 

[webpage20022003]

24 people VOTED already ??? Good job

the race is very close.....keep voting if you haven't done so

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by Billy Lear
I'll ask Ed Parker Jr. later on tonight for the entire errata of the book. Since he primarily worked on the book. Maybe later I can post it.

Hasta,
Billy :asian:

Did you manage to get a postable copy of the errata?

 

[Seig]

WhenI got my copy of the encyclopedia, I called Mr. Conatser about thgis very issue. The encyclopedia and Infinite Insights contradict one another. The answer Mr. Conatser gave me was that the encyclopedia at teh time of Mr. Parker's death was still a rough draft/collection of notes. It was a project he planned on getting back to. After his passing, Mr. Parker, jr and others compiled the notes and rough draft and put them together in a prinatble format. As Mr. Conatser put it to me, in this instance, Infinite Insighrs is correct and the encyclopedia is incorrect.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Personally, I think this silly title should be handled with Ed Wynn's eleven-foot pole--the one he invented for people you wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Robert, are you seeking shelter from the KenpoNet trolls over here?
I do happen to agree with you. The Kenpo community continues to humiliate itself with the rank and title stuff.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Like, "OFK," which in its way is a title suggestive of wisdom and superiority?

Look, Alan, lay off, "the kenpo community." I really don't mean to be unkind, and I'm prob'ly being a bit snappish ("Michael Presario," my left...), but why not just pick on particular examples--which, I'm sorry to say, won't be at all hard to find? If you must go after something systemic, why not trace things back to their sources, or try? I have.

Or why not try something more personally useful--examine all the BS in BJJ. I've certainly heard that the Gracies are nice folks--and I've also heard that lots of the people in BJJ are not. I can't help but find the "unlimited," events fascinating--but you know, since a) they are, in the end, sport--many would argue that they're contradictory to real martial arts, b) done primarily to make money...well, see what I mean?

I'm glad you're happy studying. I honestly am. Truth to tell, there're lots of holes in me kenpo, including grappling--I just don't expect to patch 'em all up, this incarnation. And I at least got your point--so for cripes' sake, can we move on to something else now?

Here, I'll say it: in addition to being a great martial artist, a genius-level teacher, a good writer, and an extraodinary martial arts theorist, Mr. Parker was also often a pretty-much-shamless self-promoter. We are still stuck with all of that, good and icky.

Is that enough, Mr. Worthman?

Hey, incidentally, anyody know what, "Mr." is short for?

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Robert, I can't disagree with you here either. I don't think the "Old Fat" part of my name is supposed to establish me as a font of wisdom, more likely, a crumudgeonly couch potato.

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

The question this question brings to me is what qualifies a person to be a grandmaster?

It seems that everytime i look around there is a grandmaster here and there. There are many of them when you look at their credentials the highest they ever got would be 1st or 2nd deg.

I am not trying to put anyone down.

But, I just wonder what qualifies a person to be called grand master. Is it their time, contribution, effort, how many people they have promoted ?

If someone creates a system I guess they can call themselves anything they want. But, shouldnt there be some type of requirements that need to be met ?

I remember here in chicago some friends of mine were studying years ago with a supposed grand master. But, when they looked into his background it was all fasle.

Soon after the guy packed up and left.

The title "Grandmaster" is not something to play with.


Chicago Green Dragon
:asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

But, I just wonder what qualifies a person to be called grand master. Is it their time, contribution, effort, how many people they have promoted ?

If you only go by how many people you pomote the title mans little. any fool can make up a system and promote people ith useless rank. For that matter anyone in a "legit" system theat has a small amount of rank can turn out hundreds of usless black belts and keep that $$$ rolling in.
Time within a system may not make that big a difference either. Some folks can be in a system 20 yars and still not know squat about what its about

 

[Chicago Green Dragon]

Good points

so then what qualifies a person the have that title ?


Chicago Green Dragon
:asian:

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

When I was 12, I asked my Sensei: "What color belt does a 10th degree wear: Black or Red?" He answered "Any color he wants".

It seems that the main qualifications are 1) being good enough that somebody wants to call you "Grandmaster" and 2) having the chutzpah to let them do so.

 

[michaeledward]

My instructor is 'Master'.
His instructor is 'Grand Master'
His instructor is 'Great Grand Master'
His instructor is 'Great Great Grand Master'.
:rofl: :rofl:

 

[Michael Billings]

I could foresee someone, especially if you promote multiple generations of Black Belts, being alive and called:

Great Great Great Great Great Grand Master

At some point, for me, the honorific loses some of it's meaning. We can all relate to our Grandfather (Sigung), or Great Grandfather, but much beyond that becomes meaningless.

The Chinese use SIJO (Teacher-ancestor), meaning the teacher of the teacher's teacher. Sometimes used to mean the founder of a Chinese martial art style. Sometimes used as Tai sijo meaning great teacher-ancestor.

Interesting in a confusing kind of way. The Japanese have an entirely different way of looking at it, they look at rank, and then at stature in the organization, or "founder" status (Soke-hood, if there is such a word.)

-Michael

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

Funny how in the early days of American martial arts people sought out a teacher. Later they looked for a Master. Recently people sought to study under a Grandmaster. Now that's not even good enough.

It's also funny how as technology evolves it becomes easier for martial artists to join associations and gain titles via mail-order, video training, and over the internet.

Perhaps the most important criteria for Grandmastership will be having the best website? Thinking...thinking...you know...Micheal Billings: you ARE a Grandmaster!

 

[rmcrobertson]

Hey, I know---we'll use exponents. You know (can't figure out the superscript numbers)--GrandCubed, etc.

This is in keeping with a theory I've been working on about some promotions---clearly, they're getting together with their buddies and adding the exponents...as in, a 4th and a 2nd can promote the fourth to sixth...

I personally think that ALL this crap oughta be saved for ceremonial occasions...you know, like Class A uniforms or dress blues....

And I quite agree, and in cheesy terms too...what was that movie, "The Lost Kingdom?" About the Monkey King? With that guy from, "Dharma and Greg?"
In that, there's a claim that there IS no higher title than, "teacher."

OK, OK, self-aggrandizing. But I can't even stand it when a friend of mine who's doing kung fu calls her teacher "Master," and apparently that's traditional in the style....

 

[Michael Billings]

They tried to call me that at a Camp where I was the guest instructor. I explained that mastery of something does not equate with being a Master. Kenpo being a little different, I briefly explained our titles, Mr. Billings was good enough ... do you ever FEEL like a master? Not even after 25 years in Kenpo do I feel like one, a very tenured student maybe.

-Michael

PS - The ended up calling me Sifu, for those that just could not let it go. <<sigh>>

 

[tshadowchaser]

I think there should be only ONE grandmaster in any system.
All others in the system must take a back seat and wait their time.
I belive this title should only be used IF a system has been in exsistance for 50 -100 years minimun. I know thats a big jump in years but If you create the system and it exsists for 50 years and your still alive take the title if you didnt create it take the title of head instructor and Whomever is head instuctor at 100 years can begin the succession of Grandmaster.
There are to many claiming the title in organisations 1-2 yars old.
If your organisation has not surrived a minimun of 50 years its not a system yet its still in its infancy and growing stage of becomeing a system
Titles such as head instructor, instructor of masters, master, instructor of teachers, teacher can all be used at lower levels.
just my thought on the matter