How Rank is Handled in the Bujinkan.

[bydand]

There was some postings on another forum about some 8th Dans doing some very weak taijutsu for their ranks.

Then don't train with them.

Move on and find someone with good taijutsu reguardless of their rank and train with them. I don't give a rats backside what rank somebody is either, a 9th Kyu or a 15th Dan can show me something and I can find something to learn from them. I don't ask rank, I look at their movement and attitude. It is not my place to either give rank or question rank, it is my place to find the best training I can.

I would not be so bold as to infer Hatsumi Sensei had made a mistake in awarding rank to someone. Example: I have been an Electrician for way, way too long (25 years this year) and that would be like somebody who just strapped on a tool belt questioning the way I have a large commercial job timeline laid out. They may have some degree of knowledge, maybe even went to college for the trade; BUT, while they were reading books and buying beer, I was laying out the electrical for multi-million dollar jobs. I'll be polite and listen to their argument, then tell them to go pound sand someplace. Are we going to call THE BOSS to task because in our little narrow view of the art we don't agree with his actions? Not me!

 

[Seattletcj]

The Bujinkan arts are *VERY* expansive and take many, many years to understand. We do not just learn how to throw people (a la Judo), or punch or kick (a la Karate), or draw swords (a la Iaido). We do *ALL* that, *PLUS* naginata, *PLUS* flexible weapons, *PLUS* water techniques, *PLUS* this, *PLUS* that.

As with any specialty (such as throwing people), it takes a lot of dedicated training (just like Judo-ka) to get good at it. Some people specialize in certain things, due to talent or interest or whatever. So doesn't it make sense to want to train with those specialists?

-ben

Are you saying to cross-train with specialists in judo for throwing, and karate for striking?

 

[Alan Witty]

As one with a web site I find it a useful way for folks to find out who is training here. I admit to laziness as I just asked my teacher and he let me use his template.

On another point I think that having your rank up is a way for people to say ok he is ok to teach. I guess Shidhoshi would do as well. I actually think that rank is less important than who I learned from. That I do post and if people ask I say check with Dale or Mike.

Otherwise I do not think I have worn the patch since that awful picture on the site. We do use Kyu sheets but mostly so people will have some idea of what to focus on for practice. Otherwise it rarely comes up. But here is a funny story.

One of my students received his Shodan. Another wanted to buy the fellow his black belt. Fine with me. This was till I got a call from the second student who had tried to purchase a belt for the first from several locations and got these long lectures on why they could not sell him a black belt and how his just buying one – albeit for a good hearted reason – was bad. Go figure as he could buy one the internet. Finally, I had to speak to the head of a local school, who had invited me to a seminar and knew me, and asked him to please sell the fellow a black belt. This was than done if a bit grudgingly.

Black belt or religious icon?

 

[bydand]

Are you saying to cross-train with specialists in judo for throwing, and karate for striking?

I think he was refering to members of the Bujinkan who specialize in these aspects of the art.

 

[KageMusha]

I will probably get flamed for this, but what the hey.....

I don't see a huge problem with a 30 year Judan, only a 30 year old Judan that started training when they were about 20 years old.

I have been training in the martial arts for almost 13 years now. I find it hard to believe that someone can "master" and art with such little mat time. I have heard of someone in particular who had only about 8 years of mat time and somehow was a 6th dan. I may have been told wrong, so I will not state who.

The 25 year old people of old japan that Ben mentioned as masters/soke of their time probably did have a great understanding of the arts of war. But they started training since about the age of birth. Even if they were not training yet as a child, they were being conditioned to. That is the differance.

Just my opinion. Flame on......

 

[Seattletcj]

I think he was refering to members of the Bujinkan who specialize in these aspects of the art.

oh....should have known. It almost made sense !

I can see it now.......
me: Honey, I'll be heading off to Maine to learn some throwing techniques next week. I dont feel I have enough skill in this area and I heard there is a Bujinkan guy there that is really good at throws. I'll practice with him over the weekend, and after that I'll be much better.

wife: Why dont you just go to the judo club down the street? The instructors are world class judoka from Japan, and you can go every week.

me: Well, uhm, but they dont do things the Bujinkan way. Its uhm a different feeling. Its not as realistic. Its for combat not sport. They dont do throws while wearing swords. Oh, by the way ....on the 1st of the month I'm heading down to Texas for a few days to learn some sword fighting stuff.

Lots of ideas sound good when they are sugar coated and topped with sprinkles, but are in reality, illogical and unrealistic.

 

[bydand]

oh....should have known. It almost made sense !

I can see it now.......
me: Honey, I'll be heading off to Maine to learn some throwing techniques next week. I dont feel I have enough skill in this area and I heard there is a Bujinkan guy there that is really good at throws. I'll practice with him over the weekend, and after that I'll be much better.

wife: Why dont you just go to the judo club down the street? The instructors are world class judoka from Japan, and you can go every week.

me: Well, uhm, but they dont do things the Bujinkan way. Its uhm a different feeling. Its not as realistic. Its for combat not sport. They dont do throws while wearing swords. Oh, by the way ....on the 1st of the month I'm heading down to Texas for a few days to learn some sword fighting stuff.

Lots of ideas sound good when they are sugar coated and topped with sprinkles, but are in reality, illogical and unrealistic.

Did I say this? No! You are acting like a little kid now. When you grow up and can post like a resonable adult I may take you off ignore, but I highly doubt it. Never had the feeling I needed to use that feature, but your posts are just becomming more bizzare and frankly rather condensending. Grow up! Get off your narrow point of view and actually read what is being said in other posts. Posts like this may work on other forums, but thank God this forum has people smart enough to ignore adolesent behavior and stupid arguments like this one from you. Welcome to being the first person I ever put on my ignore list, should give you a warm feeling all inside. :feedtroll

 

[Don Roley]

oh....should have known. It almost made sense !

I can see it now.......
me: Honey, I'll be heading off to Maine to learn some throwing techniques next week. I dont feel I have enough skill in this area and I heard there is a Bujinkan guy there that is really good at throws. I'll practice with him over the weekend, and after that I'll be much better.

wife: Why dont you just go to the judo club down the street? The instructors are world class judoka from Japan, and you can go every week.

me: Well, uhm, but they dont do things the Bujinkan way. Its uhm a different feeling. Its not as realistic. Its for combat not sport. They dont do throws while wearing swords. Oh, by the way ....on the 1st of the month I'm heading down to Texas for a few days to learn some sword fighting stuff.

Lots of ideas sound good when they are sugar coated and topped with sprinkles, but are in reality, illogical and unrealistic.

Bydand is right.

If you think that you can take something from another art like judo and just pass it off as Bujinkan, then you really do not have that deep of an understanding. There are similarities, and there are differences in every art. It is the differences that are the important things.

But of course, I see a lot of people in the Bujinkan that think they can take a little knife work from Kali, some sword from aikido and pass it off as Bujinkan. It does not work because of all the patches needed to make it come together.

Perhaps you should calm down a little and be a little less insulting?

 

[saru1968]

Bydand is right.


Perhaps you should calm down a little and be a little less insulting?

Just what i was thinking....

I knew what Byland was saying as i suspect seattlecj does................

 

[Bigshadow]

I will probably get flamed for this, but what the hey.....

I don't see a huge problem with a 30 year Judan, only a 30 year old Judan that started training when they were about 20 years old.

I have been training in the martial arts for almost 13 years now. I find it hard to believe that someone can "master" and art with such little mat time. I have heard of someone in particular who had only about 8 years of mat time and somehow was a 6th dan. I may have been told wrong, so I will not state who.

The 25 year old people of old japan that Ben mentioned as masters/soke of their time probably did have a great understanding of the arts of war. But they started training since about the age of birth. Even if they were not training yet as a child, they were being conditioned to. That is the differance.

Just my opinion. Flame on......

People don't learn at the same rate. Some people can train for 20 years and not get it, others can train for 5 and do get it. It isn't a union where one has seniority because they have been "in" the longest.

 

[MJS]

Thread closed pending review.

Mike Slosek
MT Supermod