How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself?

[Makalakumu]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

 

[Gary Crawford]

This really depends on the person. I've seen some that can effectively defend themselves even before training and I know some who have trained for years and just can't fight. The "fight" in a person comes from within. " It doesn't matter what size the dog in the fight is, what matters is the size of fight in the dog".

 

[MJS]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

IMHO, it shouldn't take that long at all. If we look at an art like Krav Maga, we see some damn effective SD, that is easy to do, easy to remember, and doesnt take a ton of practice. This is how its billed, due to the fact that it was originally designed to be a military art.

Now, this doesnt mean that the student shouldn't train or practice on a regular basis, because obviously the more you train, the better you should get.

So, how long does it take? Well, I'll use my art, Kenpo, as an example. If we strip it down, taking out the kata, focusing on the basics, ie: the basic blocks, punches, and kicks, footwork, IMO, within 2-3 months, the student should be capable of surviving an empty hand attack. Weapons...well, that'll take a bit more time, so I'd say tack on at least another 2-3 after that.

In Kenpo, there're a ton of Sd techs, so obviously if that was also trimmed down, taking a few basic ones, and drilling the heck out of some spontaneous drills, where we force them to use their basics to adapt to whats being thrown at them, rather than giving them a preset tech. for every type of attack known, again, within a few months.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

I cannot say, as I am no authority. My sensei has said that if he were to recommend a system where a person could very quickly learn to defend themselves, it would be boxing. And this from an Isshin-Ryu 8th Dan. I have to say I believe him. However, it is just what I've heard him say.

 

[Stonecold]

I agree Boxing is Great for self defence.
But no matter what you learn you still have to have the mind to do it when needed.
A lot of trained people even police ect... freeze up the first time they get into trouble. You have to keep your head, move, breath so you can keep focus.
Don't get tunnel vision, be aware of whats going on around you.
Above all try to spot trouble before in happens so you came get set or get out.....
Hope this helps, Mind set is he key.

 

[Makalakumu]

In my dojang, students learn basics blocks and strikes, falling, and some basic grappling right off the bat. A student can realistically learn how to defend oneself, if training is regular and consistent, in about three months. My goal as a teacher is that by the time students put in a year of training, they ALL should be able to handle themselves in a fight.

 

[seasoned]

Over the years I have seen a lot of different people train in martial arts. Some had great kata but could not spar, some had great kata and could spar very well, and got their butts handed to them in the street. On the other hand there have been white belts that could whip up on black belts, these are the ones that I could not wait for their belt to change color, so we didn't look too bad.

Give anybody a year of dedicated training and they should be able to hold their own, but the proof is how well they fair from a solid hit to the face, from someone with hate in their eyes. :asian:

 

[Tensei85]

I think is depends on a lot of different things, for instance the Student(as mentioned), the Instructor plays a huge role in this, the System itself - how it has been transmitted, what emphasis the particular school is placing(some focus mainly on Kata, Tao Lu...), not to over complicate things I feel "Realistic Self Defence" should always be a major emphasis & the training should complement that from the very beginning.

 

[Omar B]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

depends on the skill (or lack thereof) of the attacker.

 

[sgtmac_46]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

The first question would be 'Defend themselves against what', but I get your point........would a specific art be a quicker path to self-defense than other arts.......I certainly think so.

 

[sgtmac_46]

This really depends on the person. I've seen some that can effectively defend themselves even before training and I know some who have trained for years and just can't fight. The "fight" in a person comes from within. " It doesn't matter what size the dog in the fight is, what matters is the size of fight in the dog".

That's true, more or less, that the mental is more important than the physical........but as I heard Dan Inosanto say at a seminar, you also have to respect nature........meaning being big and strong is not a negative.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I cannot say, as I am no authority. My sensei has said that if he were to recommend a system where a person could very quickly learn to defend themselves, it would be boxing. And this from an Isshin-Ryu 8th Dan. I have to say I believe him. However, it is just what I've heard him say.

I'd have to agree with that.........a student to be taught to box to a fairly reasonable level in a few months.........there is only the basic footwork and 6 basic punches (Straight/Jab, Cross, Left/Right Hook, Left/Right Uppercut......maybe Overhand Left/Right) are only 6 to 8 basic punches, and basic movements.........after learning them, it's straight to simply mastering them until they are done instinctively.

Compare that to some systems with over 100 to 200 techniques, and you'll see that the simplicity of boxing lends itself to quick mastery and effective use.

And then you add in the live sparring.

And ultimately, punching is how most people fight anyway.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I agree Boxing is Great for self defence.
But no matter what you learn you still have to have the mind to do it when needed.
A lot of trained people even police ect... freeze up the first time they get into trouble. You have to keep your head, move, breath so you can keep focus.
Don't get tunnel vision, be aware of whats going on around you.
Above all try to spot trouble before in happens so you came get set or get out.....
Hope this helps, Mind set is he key.

That's true.......but that's one other thing Boxing has going for it.......once you learn the techniques, you immediately learn to start using it against someone punching back, and get used to getting punched yourself.

The best way to learn how to fight is........FIGHT!

 

[Chris Parker]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

Hi maunakumu,

Well, I'll bring a little historical appreciation to the discussion.

In times of war (and this is seen in any system that originates in such conditions, or develops in such circumstances) tend to have very small syllabus', and very "simple" techniques. Arts such as Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu actually has a very small technical syllabus, with the iconic two sword section only having 5 kata to instill it's entire range of wisdom. So all it's most important tactics and technical traits are condenced into 5 relatively easy patterns, or techniques (of course, the kata themselves can stay very simple, but have a great deal of depth to them as well). But the point is that the art was written down to instill in Musashi's disciples only the most important aspects of how to survive sword encounters.

In peacetime, the arts grew. There was more time for introspection, and the intellectual aspects could flourish, leading to a wider variety of technical aspects and kata, as the art was allowed to expand. But if it found itself facing a time of constant violence, the art would "slim down" again, becoming leaner, and stripping the technical curriculum back to a more bare bones approach, as that would be what was required. This has been seen as arts teachings change with different heads, each trying to do what they feel is best to ensure the essence of the art survives to the next generation (the last three or four generations of the Kashima Shinryu has had changes to it's structure, with the jujutsu portion changing the number of kata between 70-odd to over 200, and the grouping of the kata going from 6 groups back to 4 or 5, and then later spread back out to 6).

Another good example of this change, even when depth is kept, is how long it has taken to get Menkyo Kaiden in an art such as Araki Ryu. In times of peace, the average was between 15 and 20 years, but in times of war, it was awarded in 5 and 7 years in a few cases.

So you can see that this issue has been present in martial arts for centuries. Currently, we are in a period of peace (relatively, unless you are in active military duty), so the arts have been allowed to flourish, adding new techniques, growing in depth. But each art can be stripped back to it's bare essence, and trained in a way that will get a student very effective very quickly, as that is needed at times. For example, the Kukishinden Ryu Sojutsu scroll has three sections and about 30 kata for spear, and if a student is interested I will take them through the depth of the art of the spear. However, I can strip the art of the spear down to about 6 movements, and go through a series of solid drills developed directly from Kukishinden Ryu, getting the student very effective with a spear very quickly. I can also do the same for any other aspect of our system, whether armed or unarmed.

In order to get someone "street effective", I could do it in about two months, it will be quite hard training, and not everyone would go through it, the depth will not be there as it would be if more time was spent. But it can be done. Just don't think that that is the same as studying the art, that takes a great deal more time.

I think that about covers it.

 

[Em MacIntosh]

If you train four-five hours per day, three-four times a week and you're learning through straight sparring (breakdown) and conditioning, learn how to utilize your ferocity without losing control. If you aren't naturally ferocious you'll have to cultivate it under pressure. You'll need to learn to deal with the adrenaline dump. Learn (at least the concept of) when to make a dedicated attack and when not to, the most likely forms of assault you're likely to face and, of course, what really hurts and how to apply it. I think this can be taught to a natural in a couple weeks, it can take a few months for someone with less of a knack to break that shell of timidity. As far as throwing something together quickly that's my best idea.

 

[dbell]

To learn self defense in a way that will help 95% of the people that just want self defense would not require most of the school's curriculum as they stand now.

A person can be taught basic self defense tactics, including punching, kicking, blocking, throwing (and falling should they be thrown), pressure points and locks in a few short months, (mind you, pressure points and locks are not always the way to go when defending yourself from an attacker, but may lead to being able to set yourself up for escaping and moving away from the attacker) with a few more months of practice once they get these basics down, would be sufficient for self defense. It would require continued practice every so often to remain capable of defending oneself, as things are forgotten over time...

Most of the arts I have practiced in or have watched in others, would require a few years before anyone would be able to effectively be able to defend themselves from most attacks.

 

[just2kicku]

I think that it is not so much the art, but the students ability to make the techs second nature without having to think about it. It also depends on the students mental make up to follow thru.
Sure, maybe he or she can get a joint lock on, but do they have what it takes to keep going until something snaps so said attacker can't re attack.

We hear stories all the time of people who get their own weapons taken away and used against them because they don't have the heart to follow thru.

 

[Xue Sheng]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

It depends on how much one trains but the numbers are debatable but said to be roughly

Taijiquan - 6 years
Xingyiquan - 2 years
Sanda - Less than a year and considerably faster, but it was made to be faster

 

[Draven]

How long does it take to learn how to realistically defend oneself in your art? If a person had a need to learn self defense for whatever reason, how long would it take for that person to learn enough concepts, techniques and practice them so that they can access them in a fight? Lets say that the person's need to learn self defense is urgent. Would your art be a good choice?

Well it depends on the leave of training offered and the students ability to learn. Going with my Street Focused Jujitsu system; I'd say 1 week to 1 month depending on the level of commitment. I used a required class room instruction period of hours. You can spend an hour for a few days or be in two hours 5 days a weak, I also require so many hours of sparring as well. Course at the basic level; you only learn a handful of striking techniques, throws, takedowns, and groundfighting. This is core material for being able to fight at all ranges & some psychological principles to help avoid the need to fight.

If it was urgent the student made the best of his/her time; I'd say solid week (10 hrs) of training could be done with the best case scenario of a student. One average; lets say a month (40hrs) of in class training.

 

[corwin137]

Something not mentioned in detail (at least at my effort to skim the topic), is a discussion about what a baseline of those skills/contexts are, to begin with. What one is likely to encounter is as relevant as size, "styles", innate abilities, training methods, etc. Will offer a hopefully humble, and surely incomplete starting point to begin with:

1. Pre-fight considerations
2. Managing unknown contacts
3. Generalship
4. In-fight tool access
5. Dealing with tools (ours and "theirs")
6. Basic skills in all ranges
7. Principles
8. Use of/dealing with environmental considerations
9. Concerns surrounding multiple "attackers"
10. Safety of loved (maybe just liked...) ones
11. Legal considerations (including those about tool use/carrying)

That again, is a really short, summarized, and incomplete list. Shouldn't first aid be considered? EDC (every day carry) issues? More, way more than that.

At the end of the day, am not as concerned with time, as I am with having a complete set of basic material, whatever "basic" material is. That is more important than, time, styles, maybe even training methods.