How is the stop-format kumite done in training without a referee?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Acronym, Aug 29, 2020.

  1. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    It is the norm. In training, the focus is about improving their application of karate....not just scoring points.
     
  2. isshinryuronin

    isshinryuronin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    374
    Trophy Points:
    218
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Amazingly, Acronym got this one mostly right. What was missed in this and his earlier post was that distance (being close to actual contact) is not the whole story. A vital element is missing - potential contact. (At least in older traditional karate tournaments.)

    If I punch and stop a couple of inches from the opponent's chin with my arm fully extended, or over-leaning (bad form) there should be no point. I was short of my target with no potential to actually effectively land it. However, if my punching arm is bent a couple of inches, then there is potential contact had I wished it, and the point should be scored. Contact was not made because I was too far away, but because I decided to stop it, showing I could have hit him had I wanted to. This is the key point

    Gerry hit on this point - I just felt it should be expanded upon. Maybe he just "pulled" it and didn't land it that hard. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  3. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    24,609
    Likes Received:
    7,228
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    I don't know, but I'd suspect that rule is there to allow that judges may not be able to tell the difference between a near-touch and an actual touch (a problem for judging when all that's required is a touch), to avoid the "I hit him" - "no you didn't!" moments.
     
  4. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Is it true that stop formats create muscle memory that impairs one's performance when trying out continuous, hard sparring?

    Bill Wallace thought it was better to not have a background in sparring at all if you're alternative is the stop format, heading into full contact but that’s just his opinion.
     
  5. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Our way of thinking....

    If you train continuous sparring you still get better at point stop because its easy to stop striking when the judge yells stop.

    But you don't get good at continuous sparring by predominately training point stop.

    I believe training in continuous sparring is one of the reasons my son has been successful at competition. I think it just makes you a better fighter and competitor.

    In training he is focusing on improving on all aspects of fighting (the entry, maintaining spacing, attacking with combos , and the exit).
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Not everybody does both.
     
  7. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    I would like to try stop formats but open style Karate tournaments aren't as ubiquitous anymore and you have to get to orange or brown belt before free sparring in Shotokan classes.
     
  8. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Then they are missing out.
     
  9. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Where do you live?
     
  10. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Yes they obviously are but does it induce muscle memory or can a fighter make a switch to continuous fighting just as easily as someone who never sparred any format.
     
  11. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Sweden. The days of open style tournaments are long gone. The Karate craze is over. We don't even have separate classes in Taekwondo. White belts are mixed with black belts
     
  12. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Your muscle memory will be based on your training so competing in point stop competition isn't effected since you spend way more time in training.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  13. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Ah...in the US we still have a lot of open style competitions, pre-Covid my son would compete in 16-20 tournaments a year.

    I could point you to some good tournaments over here but I can't help you in Sweden.
     
  14. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    But I need a black belt first, right?
     
  15. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    Nope. Typically, Tournaments are set up in divisions based on skill level {beginner, intermediate, advanced, black belt) age, and size.
     
  16. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    Here's an old one in Sweden. Do they still allow judo throws?

     
  17. Acronym

    Acronym Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2020
    Messages:
    1,018
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    73
    That one looks like a open style Kyokushin tournament since they aren't punching each other in the face even at close range.

    That's the only male ITF Taekwondo World champion from Sweden in history, I think.
     
  18. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Messages:
    4,248
    Likes Received:
    2,270
    Trophy Points:
    388
    Location:
    New Iberia, Louisiana USA
    There are also a lot of continuous sparring with light contact as well as heavy contact tournaments. Categories are based on age, rank, training time, etc. Then of course there are the full contact Kickboxing tournaments and Muay Thai tournaments.
     
  19. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,693
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    Trophy Points:
    303
    Location:
    Saline
    The tournament circuits we compete at do not. Typically, the matches are on hard surfaces
     
  20. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    24,609
    Likes Received:
    7,228
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Hendersonville, NC
    It’s definitely true that it can. Another member on here (a cop) posted once of a cop he worked with almost handing a knife back after disarming someone, because that’s what they did in the MA school where he trained.

    But it won’t be every time or every person. It’s a percentages thing, and we can only guess at what the actual percentage is.123
     

Share This Page