How is the stop-format kumite done in training without a referee?

[CB Jones]

Is that the norm or the exception to make it easier, having them do continuous?

It is the norm. In training, the focus is about improving their application of karate....not just scoring points.

 

[isshinryuronin]

It seems strange why it would count in tournaments. I think it refers to when you've hit it so cleanly and fast, yet didn't touch, that your opponent was paralyzed by it and the judges could clearly see that you exhibited outstanding control. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense to score techniques that don't land.

Amazingly, Acronym got this one mostly right. What was missed in this and his earlier post was that distance (being close to actual contact) is not the whole story. A vital element is missing - potential contact. (At least in older traditional karate tournaments.)

If I punch and stop a couple of inches from the opponent's chin with my arm fully extended, or over-leaning (bad form) there should be no point. I was short of my target with no potential to actually effectively land it. However, if my punching arm is bent a couple of inches, then there is potential contact had I wished it, and the point should be scored. Contact was not made because I was too far away, but because I decided to stop it, showing I could have hit him had I wanted to. This is the key point

Gerry hit on this point - I just felt it should be expanded upon. Maybe he just "pulled" it and didn't land it that hard.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It seems strange why it would count in tournaments. I think it refers to when you've hit it so cleanly and fast, yet didn't touch, that your opponent was paralyzed by it and the judges could clearly see that you exhibited outstanding control. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense to score techniques that don't land.

I don't know, but I'd suspect that rule is there to allow that judges may not be able to tell the difference between a near-touch and an actual touch (a problem for judging when all that's required is a touch), to avoid the "I hit him" - "no you didn't!" moments.

 

[Acronym]

Is it true that stop formats create muscle memory that impairs one's performance when trying out continuous, hard sparring?

Bill Wallace thought it was better to not have a background in sparring at all if you're alternative is the stop format, heading into full contact but that’s just his opinion.

 

[CB Jones]

Is it true that stop formats create muscle memory that impairs one's performance when trying out continuous, hard sparring?

Bill Wallace thought it was better to not have a background in sparring at all if you're alternative is the stop format, heading into full contact but that’s just his opinion.

Our way of thinking....

If you train continuous sparring you still get better at point stop because its easy to stop striking when the judge yells stop.

But you don't get good at continuous sparring by predominately training point stop.

I believe training in continuous sparring is one of the reasons my son has been successful at competition. I think it just makes you a better fighter and competitor.

In training he is focusing on improving on all aspects of fighting (the entry, maintaining spacing, attacking with combos , and the exit).

 

[Acronym]

Our way of thinking....

If you train continuous sparring you still get better at point stop because its easy to stop striking when the judge yells stop.

But you don't get good at continuous sparring by predominately training point stop.

I believe training in continuous sparring is one of the reasons my son has been successful at competition. I think it just makes you a better fighter and competitor.

In training he is focusing on improving on all aspects of fighting (the entry, maintaining spacing, attacking with combos , and the exit).

Not everybody does both.

 

[Acronym]

I would like to try stop formats but open style Karate tournaments aren't as ubiquitous anymore and you have to get to orange or brown belt before free sparring in Shotokan classes.

 

[CB Jones]

Not everybody does both.

Then they are missing out.

 

[CB Jones]

I would like to try stop formats but open style Karate tournaments aren't as ubiquitous anymore and you have to get to orange or brown belt before free sparring in Shotokan classes.

Where do you live?

 

[Acronym]

Then they are missing out.

Yes they obviously are but does it induce muscle memory or can a fighter make a switch to continuous fighting just as easily as someone who never sparred any format.

 

[Acronym]

Where do you live?

Sweden. The days of open style tournaments are long gone. The Karate craze is over. We don't even have separate classes in Taekwondo. White belts are mixed with black belts

 

[CB Jones]

Yes they obviously are but does it induce muscle memory or can a fighter make a switch to continuous fighting just as easily as someone who never sparred any format.

Your muscle memory will be based on your training so competing in point stop competition isn't effected since you spend way more time in training.

 

[CB Jones]

Sweden. The days of open style tournaments are long gone. The Karate craze is over. We don't even have separate classes in Taekwondo. White belts are mixed with black belts

Ah...in the US we still have a lot of open style competitions, pre-Covid my son would compete in 16-20 tournaments a year.

I could point you to some good tournaments over here but I can't help you in Sweden.

 

[Acronym]

Ah...in the US we still have a lot of open style competitions, pre-Covid my son would compete in 16-20 tournaments a year.

I could point you to some good tournaments over here but I can't help you in Sweden.

But I need a black belt first, right?

 

[CB Jones]

But I need a black belt first, right?

Nope. Typically, Tournaments are set up in divisions based on skill level {beginner, intermediate, advanced, black belt) age, and size.

 

[Acronym]

Nope. Typically, Tournaments are set up in divisions based on skill level {beginner, intermediate, advanced, black belt) age, and size.

Here's an old one in Sweden. Do they still allow judo throws?

 

[Acronym]

That one looks like a open style Kyokushin tournament since they aren't punching each other in the face even at close range.

That's the only male ITF Taekwondo World champion from Sweden in history, I think.

 

[Danny T]

There are also a lot of continuous sparring with light contact as well as heavy contact tournaments. Categories are based on age, rank, training time, etc. Then of course there are the full contact Kickboxing tournaments and Muay Thai tournaments.

 

[CB Jones]

Here's an old one in Sweden. Do they still allow judo throws?

The tournament circuits we compete at do not. Typically, the matches are on hard surfaces

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is it true that stop formats create muscle memory that impairs one's performance when trying out continuous, hard sparring?

Bill Wallace thought it was better to not have a background in sparring at all if you're alternative is the stop format, heading into full contact but that’s just his opinion.

It’s definitely true that it can. Another member on here (a cop) posted once of a cop he worked with almost handing a knife back after disarming someone, because that’s what they did in the MA school where he trained.

But it won’t be every time or every person. It’s a percentages thing, and we can only guess at what the actual percentage is.