Hogens book

[Master of Blades]

No I have Kurt Angles though, that was a good read. Speaking of Angle I watched Smackdown for the first time in ages and Team Angle are pretty wicked. What do you think of them?

 

[Shinobi]

They absolutely suck. Now we got 3 guys, Angle, Lesnar, and Shelton Bejamin who've all been handed contracts simply because they was High School Wrestlers. None of them care about the Industry, they only care about the $$$. And none of the 3 had to pay any dues. So, I say get rid of them. And fod Gods sakes keep them away from Benoit. They aint even in his league.

 

[JDenz]

Are you kidding? Angle is an olympic champ, Brock Is a three time all American I am pretty sure. If you call that not paying your dues you are definitly wrong. I would bet you not one guy in the WWE was in the kind of shape that Angle was in for the Olympics

 

[Shinobi]

No, that isn't paying dues. Paying your dues is paying to go to a Wrestling School, learning, Wrestling the Indy scene, then working your way up. NOT getting a big dollar contract faxed to you that states you'll be paid to train in a cushy Gym then being placed on the roster, where you're the top guy in under a year. They've been given free rides. Never earned it. And I could care less what their past "accomplishments" are. That has nothing to do with here and now.

 

[Master of Blades]

Something tells me your a Benoit fan. Okay I hear you.......maybe they dont have the right attitude or whatever but listen to this. when they go out to that ring Angle and the like give 110% when they get in that ring. I dont care what they think like out of it, as long as they make sure the crowd is happy and that they put on a good show then its cool. And I disagree that there only in it for money. Team Angle are good athletes and can put on a hell of a show! Im also pretty sure if you met them in real life you would find out that wrestling is most wrestlers LIVES, including people like Angle. Thats my 2 cents anyway :asian:

 

[Shinobi]

Yes I am a Benoit fan. There is noone on this Earth I respect more then Chris Benoit. As for Angle, heck he admitted it in the second season of Tough Enough. He had no intention of getting into it untill they started adding zero's to the contract. Which meant, he got paid to train, he got a spot coming right in. He never earned it. There are 200 guys on the Indy scene with just as much, if not MORE ability in Pro Wrestling then him, making $10 a night trying to earn it. Meanwhile he's given a contract before he's even trained? Same with Brock. That's not right. And yes, I think Benoit should be Champion.

 

[ace]

Originally posted by Shinobi
Yes I am a Benoit fan. There is noone on this Earth I respect more then Chris Benoit. As for Angle, heck he admitted it in the second season of Tough Enough. He had no intention of getting into it untill they started adding zero's to the contract. Which meant, he got paid to train, he got a spot coming right in. He never earned it. There are 200 guys on the Indy scene with just as much, if not MORE ability in Pro Wrestling then him, making $10 a night trying to earn it. Meanwhile he's given a contract before he's even trained? Same with Brock. That's not right. And yes, I think Benoit should be Champion.

_____________________________________________

He is Good But To Say That Angel/Lesnar
Did not Pay There Do's is silly.
The 1st Thing U Learn in Pro Wrestling is how to Fall

No Lets see Angel/Lesnar Learned to Fall in Wrestling.
Next Pro Wrestling is Based On Look & Reputation.

Having an Olypic Champion in The Game Brings $$$$$$
Thats Something Every Pro Wrestler wants.

Angel Pays his Do's Every Time He does a moon sault
Last Time I Remember That Does Not Happen on The Mat

There Are & Were alot Of Great Pro Wrestlers That got in Do To There Fathers as well Wood U say They Paid there does????

Not Every Pro wrestler Set out to Be one
Shoot Dimond Dallas did not get involved untill his Late 30s

 

[JDenz]

Good post Prim

 

[ace]

Originally posted by JDenz
Good post Prim

:cheers:

 

[Shinobi]

Depends on who you're talking about. Eric Watts? Randy Orton? The (c)Rock? No, they din't pay dues. They milked their family reputation to get where they are. Hart Brothers? Dustin Rhodes? Guys like that paid their dues.


As for Angle bringing $$$$$$, the ratings don't lie. He's on top, and the ratings and WWE are failing. Read my post again. Paying your dues requires EARNING it. Guys such as Benoit, who Wrestled anywhere and everywhere to get to the WWE. Guys like RVD who spent years Wrestling in bingo halls for that chance. Guys like Jerry Lynn who can't get a break due to the Austins, Angles, Cripple H's. And, as I said. You got guys such as Lynn, Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Shane Douglas, Kaos, Fallen Angel, Reno, Big Vito, Buff Bagwell, ect who paid their dues, and continue to pay their dues, to make it big. Then a spot opens up and you got guys who are Olympic Champions and NAAA Champions (oh wow) being offered million dollar contracts. They haven't trained, they've never had a PRO matchup, and are getting paid ALOT of money to train in some nice cushy Gym, then once they trained they are suddenly Main Events? That isn't right. Alot of guys EARNED those spots. Those FREE RIDES these guys are getting.

 

[ace]

Originally posted by Shinobi
Depends on who you're talking about. Eric Watts? Randy Orton? The (c)Rock? No, they din't pay dues. They milked their family reputation to get where they are. Hart Brothers? Dustin Rhodes? Guys like that paid their dues.


As for Angle bringing $$$$$$, the ratings don't lie. He's on top, and the ratings and WWE are failing. Read my post again. Paying your dues requires EARNING it. Guys such as Benoit, who Wrestled anywhere and everywhere to get to the WWE. Guys like RVD who spent years Wrestling in bingo halls for that chance. Guys like Jerry Lynn who can't get a break due to the Austins, Angles, Cripple H's. And, as I said. You got guys such as Lynn, Amazing Red, AJ Styles, Shane Douglas, Kaos, Fallen Angel, Reno, Big Vito, Buff Bagwell, ect who paid their dues, and continue to pay their dues, to make it big. Then a spot opens up and you got guys who are Olympic Champions and NAAA Champions (oh wow) being offered million dollar contracts. They haven't trained, they've never had a PRO matchup, and are getting paid ALOT of money to train in some nice cushy Gym, then once they trained they are suddenly Main Events? That isn't right. Alot of guys EARNED those spots. Those FREE RIDES these guys are getting.

I Like Most of The wrestler U Speak of
But Facts Are Facts
The ratings are Dieing do to
The Lack of Competition
With Out WCW or ECW
The WWE has No Competition


The Rock Has Worked in the South & The Midatlatic
He worked hard to get were he got & has surpassed
his Grandfather & his Father.

Have U ever Done Wrestling it's not
an easy sport.

Lets Face it nothing in Life is fare
Ask The Brooklin Brawler This Guy Has Been trying To
Make Big time for Years instead He is A Whooping Boy.

 

[Shinobi]

Read my older posts. Been there, done that. Might try it again. Paying your dues comes during the time you break in. By the time a person gets to the WWE dues should allready be paid. In numerous cases as of late(Tough Enough kids, Angle, Lesnar, Benjamin), dues haven't been paid. Even Goldberg. He never paid any dues. Meanwhile you got guys, such as Navajo Warrior(one of the judges a few Raws back who attacked Steiner) who's been Wrestling the small time for 12 years to catch a break.

 

[Master of Blades]

Dont get me wrong, I admire Benoit almost as much as Angle. As I said, I dont give a monkeys *** what there like and why there in the business, if there good then there good and you CANNOT deny that Angle has talent. Also you say that Angle is on top and the ratings are falling, but I have a question, is that just Smackdowns ratings or all the WWE's. If it is smackdowns then you cant really blame JUST Angle. You and me and loads of others watch wrestling and care about the wrestlers passion etc. Others dont, they just want to see Undertaker come and Chokeslam someone and F' off. Some people dont like Benoit cuz he isnt flashy enough and so on. I just dont believe you can blame Angle without putting a little pressure on Benoit. But if your gonna put it on both then might as well go straight to the top and blame it on the creative team for putting them together in a fight for the title. On another note if it is the whole WWE's ratings then I'm willing to bet quite a lot is down to the HHH Steiner fight. I've been on a load of websites and spoken to friends and people have actually STOPPED watching RAW cuz of it.

And about the tough enough kids. I have thought about that often, and I have kinda realised that I have Faith in the trainers like Al Snow who I have great respect for! They do have to train really hard and its not exactly like they go easy on them. Sure I may not agree with it but I would rather have them hand picked by people who have "paid there dues" then Someone who hasnt!
Just a couple more thoughts to ponder :asian:

 

[JDenz]

Not only that Angle and Benoit have been some of the best matches in the WWE. Angle has got the talent on themic and in the ring, not only that Angle definitly paid his dues in amuture wrestling.

 

[JDenz]

there are only 10 guys a year that win NCAA's. That's it. Winning NCAA is the best that you can do in wrestling then the olympics.

 

[Shinobi]

Okay, now that i've got time i'll jump in. First, no he HASN'T paid his dues in the amatuers. That's like saying someone who did Karate for awhile paid his dues in say, Aikido. Or Jiu-Jitsu. 2 unrelated things. Sure he paid his dues Amatuer wise, but it stops there. And I don't care about the NCAA either way, so Lesnar winning means nothing to me.



Onto MOB's, all of WWE's ratings are in a decline. It is due to the fact, fans are sick and tired of this. They're tired of Austin, HHH, Rock, Angle, Undertaker, HBK, ect, ect. They want fresh Champions and fresh Main Events. Such as RVD, Edge, Jericho, Storm, Christian, Rhyno, even Benoit. And if you look at Smackdown, every week it's the same thing. Angle beats Benoit. Angle beats Benoit. People are sick of it and flipping the channel. You can only see, no matter how good, you can only see the same matches so many times. Steiner/HHH. Yes, it was a bad match. But not because of Steiner. Heck he carried a decent Match with Jericho. HHH blew the Match. To keep his spot. And people are just tired of that. Angle isn't fully to blame, no. But maybe if he updated his gimmick and added more depth he could help the problem. Maybe if they ditch this split roster crap and quit giving HHH his own show, it would help. Better storylines couldn't hurt. Giving the Belts to Jericho and Benoit, and having them fued with RVD, Storm, each other, ect would boost ratings. Heck I don't know anyone who wouldn't wanna see Lance Storm go head to head with Benoit.

Personally I just feel, guys who've proven themselves and paid their dues should be picked first. Look at Lesnar. Bring him in, Lesnar who? Try and build him up, noone bought it. Noone liked him. Had to end. Was the same thing when Angle showed up.

Now, I probably would be okay with it, but I see alot of un used talents. Guys like Billy Gunn who earned his Main Event years ago but never got it. Guys like ex WCW Wrestlers Mike Sanders and Reno. Who earned contracts. Fresh faces who should be adding depth to the roster. Guys like Vampiro, whom they could doalot with. Guys like Big Vito, who got the it factor. Indy Wrestlers Keiji Sakoda, Hollywood Yates, Horshu, Brian "Spanky" Kendrick, Derek Neirkirk, Navajo Warrior, Ghostwalker, Tom Howard, Ron Killings, Amazing Red, AJ Styles, ect. Johnny Stamboli, a guy under contract who is stuck on HEAT each week. Former WWE Wrestler Justin Credible. Those are guys who bust their butts, and could turn WWE around. And it just makes me mad that guys like Lesnar, Angle, Benjamin, ect get contracts when they aint even Pro Wrestlers, meanwhile the people i've named have busted their rear ends for the spot, and are looked over.


That pretty much what makes me angry. Yes Angle might be a pretty good Wrestler, but there was guys who deserved the spot more. Jeff Jarrett WAS going to be tossed in the spot, but Austin refused to put him over. The blame isn't soley on Angle, or Lesnar, or Benjamin. It's on the offices hands, who seem to think their awnser is the NCAA and Amatuer Wrestling. Really, I don't blame them for taking the big dollar deals. I just stand firm in my stance that this sorta thing is wrong. And there are others who should be there.

 

[Master of Blades]

Johnny Stamboli.........now that guy! He's one of the few I will allow you to class under paying his dues

 

[JDenz]

The reason that they are taking these guys is because they are trying to sell a more realistic kind of wrestling. More like the Japenese style. The only thing I agree with you about is Triple H. They do need to make him less important on Raw. Shinobi
you have some serious issues when it comes to wrestling lol.

 

[Shinobi]

Of course I do

 

[JDenz]

hehe