Hisng-i fanatics please help :d

[ilhe4e12345]

Now....this might be stupid to some of you that have been training Hsing-I for a long time but let me give you my background in it first. I have been training martial arts for a little over 4 years now, my "main" style that i have been sticking with and love is 7 Star Praying Mantis. I have experimented with other styles such as Pai Lum, Wing Chun and some White Crane (very little) as well as Hsing-I. I have trained Hsing-I but only the basics, san ti, and the 5 elements. I took this up after my back injury due to the inability to kick during the recovery time my current Sifu and i talked about Hsing-I and soon i was standing in san ti in no time.

Anyways my current Sifu, being that he is a 7 star mantis, eagle claw and Mizongyi as his full styles/systems that he knows and teaches but he has much experience in Hsing-I including the basics, 5 elements, the 12 animals (individual), the linking form and the 12 animal form. A friend of mine was under the impression that Hsing-I besides what i mentioned already has more forms? I know there are weapon forms which at some point in my training i will find a sifu that knows the weapon forms and teachings and work with that teacher but until then i have a long way to go. Are there a lot more forms that i am missing? I tried to look on google but i was lost...i found forms on youtube that i never even heard of when researching Hsing-I and even my sifu never heard of some of them. what am i missing here?

sorry about the questions but after much studying and kicking around as well as being in contact with many other teachers and sifus across the country i have finally decided to stick with the internal arts along with my current 7 Star Mantis Training and wanted to "Finish" Hsing-I. I know your never trully "finished" with an art and thats not what i ment, i ment understanding of the full system atleast the empty hand movements.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It depends on style (Hebei, Shanxi, Henan, etc.) and Lineage but in general in Hebei you are also like to find Bashi (8 posture) there are also some who teach a mix fist boxing (see Di Guoyong). There are also multiple standing postures in Xingyi; Shanxi has a lot and so far I know Hebei has about 5 but there could be more. And different styles place different emphasis on Santi and even santi can be different from style to style. Also the stepping is not always linear, the more you learn you begin to find it angles, avoids and backs up but no matter what direction xingyiquan attacks

As to weapons good luck with that since there are a myriad of weapons that are trained in various Xingyi schools. However all they tend to have spear, staff, Dao and jian in common. But you can also find needles, Fuyue (halberd) and Jī Zhuǎ Lián (Chicken-Sabre Sickle), etc.

Also the animal forms depending on lineage and style can be different and some teach 10 others teach 12. If I remember correctly Shanxi is 10, I am not sure about Henan and Hebei is 12


EDIT
I should add that if you just train and study Wuxingquan (5elements fist) in-depth, meaning the forms separately and together, you will have a lot to learn. And there are those that believe, as far as Xingyiquan asa martial art goes, that is all you need

 

[Xue Sheng]

And one more thing...I am not a fanatic...... I'm an addict…so maybe I should not have posted anything :uhyeah:

 

[ilhe4e12345]

It depends on style (Hebei, Shanxi, Henan, etc.) and Lineage but in general in Hebei you are also like to find Bashi (8 posture) there are also some who teach a mix fist boxing (see Di Guoyong). There are also multiple standing postures in Xingyi; Shanxi has a lot and so far I know Hebei has about 5 but there could be more. And different styles place different emphasis on Santi and even santi can be different from style to style. Also the stepping is not always linear, the more you learn you begin to find it angles, avoids and backs up but no matter what direction xingyiquan attacks

As to weapons good luck with that since there are a myriad of weapons that are trained in various Xingyi schools. However all they tend to have spear, staff, Dao and jian in common. But you can also find needles, Fuyue (halberd) and Jī Zhuǎ Lián (Chicken-Sabre Sickle), etc.

Also the animal forms depending on lineage and style can be different and some teach 10 others teach 12. If I remember correctly Shanxi is 10, I am not sure about Henan and Hebei is 12


EDIT
I should add that if you just train and study Wuxingquan (5elements fist) in-depth, meaning the forms separately and together, you will have a lot to learn. And there are those that believe, as far as Xingyiquan asa martial art goes, that is all you need

I believe the lineage of the style in which my Sifu trained is Hebei. Like i said it is limited on what he knows of the style and i have listed above what he is going to be teaching me. Can you explain to me the standing posters? I will be asking my sifu next time i see him but thats about two weeks away as he is going on a vacation and i wont be having class till he comes back. I did some more reading and found that yes...there are A LOT of weapon forms within the lineages but i am not really worried about weapon forms atm as i want to focus on the open hand for my own personal learning but i will be looking into the staff and short sword at some point as those are two weapons i train a lot wthin my Mantis training. You said within Hebwei there is 8 Posture, is that a form of some kind? Im trying to get as much info on this as i can so that when i see my sifu i can sit down with him and really discuss it. Appreciate the advice and i understand your an addict Xue ...i was hoping you would answer for me lol

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xingyiquan Bashiquan

There are also fighting sets and tuishou

 

[Xue Sheng]

Also see an old post of mine here

Also look for posts with "Xingyi addict" or "Xingyiquan addict" in the title

 

[ilhe4e12345]

Also see an old post of mine here

Also look for posts with "Xingyi addict" or "Xingyiquan addict" in the title

im gonna start looking around lol...i guess your the man to talk to about it ...which is good cause i really love the style and cannot wait to begin training it again ASAP!

Can i ask how long you have been training and what you know within the style?

 

[Xue Sheng]

I train Hebei Style Xingyiquan and I have had 3 teachers so far

I started training with my first sifu about 17 years ago but I stopped after a few months and then did not train for a few years. Basically I have about 3 or 4 years of training and most of that is recent.

I have learned
wuji standing
zhang zhuan standing
santi shi standing
5 elements
5 elements cascade
5 elements staff
2 person stationary fighting set
I learned some of the animal forms but I have not trained them in a long time and likely if asked the only one I could possibly do right now is Tiger

I most recently trained with a man in Boston who gets to my area from time to time so training with a teacher is not as often as I would like
There is another man in Boston I am considering going to see in spring (this would make 4 people I have trained with if I go)

I have done an awful lot of study on Xingyiquan which means I read a lot of books

I am more of a Yang Taijiquan guy by training but I am very much addicted to Xingyiquan and have been since I first read about it in the early 70s

OK let me hit post again and see what happens. I typed out a response once already but the laptop I am on really does not like MT and I do not think MT likes it either and when I hit post the page locked and I had to let IE9 recover it and it was all lost.

Also please excuse any spacing issues because that s a BIG issue when I post to MT with this laptop

 

[ilhe4e12345]

I train Hebei Style Xingyiquan and I have had 3 teachers so far

I started training with my first sifu about 17 years ago but I stopped after a few months and then did not train for a few years. Basically I have about 3 or 4 years of training and most of that is recent.

I have learned
wuji standing
zhang zhuan standing
santi shi standing
5 elements
5 elements cascade
5 elements staff
2 person stationary fighting set
I learned some of the animal forms but I have not trained them in a long time and likely if asked the only one I could possibly do right now is Tiger

I most recently trained with a man in Boston who gets to my area from time to time so training with a teacher is not as often as I would like
There is another man in Boston I am considering going to see in spring (this would make 4 people I have trained with if I go)

I have done an awful lot of study on Xingyiquan which means I read a lot of books

I am more of a Yang Taijiquan guy by training but I am very much addicted to Xingyiquan and have been since I first read about it in the early 70s

OK let me hit post again and see what happens. I typed out a response once already but the laptop I am on really does not like MT and I do not think MT likes it either and when I hit post the page locked and I had to let IE9 recover it and it was all lost.

Also please excuse any spacing issues because that s a BIG issue when I post to MT with this laptop

I am able to see your post fine Xue. Very informative and i appreciate the information. When you say 5 Elements casade, are you refering to the 5 Elements Linking Form? Im assuming you are as casdaing refers to this but i just wanted to double check lol. I am only knowledgeable in the 5 elements at this time, but i need much more practice with them. I plan on learning all 5 elements, the linking form, the 12 animals and the 12 animal form. I am more interested in the open hand forms from Xingyi. Do you feel you comfortable with Xingyi in what you know now only knowing the 5 elements? I have been reading that knowing or being able to master the 5 elements is all the secrets within the style itself

Do you have any suggestions for books on Xingyi? I currently own two books and they are the following:

http://www.amazon.com/Hsing-I-Mind-...4553/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322539331&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Xingyiquan-Th...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322539374&sr=1-1

I like both books a lot and the second book really is detailed about each of the 5 elements as well as the form. The pictures are very detailed and easy to follow.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes I mean 5 elements linking, my first Xingyiquan sifu called it cascade form (he was from Hebei) however every other person I have every trained with or talked to calls it linking…and generally so do I. It is just every now and then the brain skips and cascade comes out.

I have read the book by Liang Shouyu and I like that as well, but I have not read the other you linked

As to books, it depends on what you are after. If you are after more traditional writings then I suggest these

The Xingyi Boxing Manual: Hebei Style's Five Principles and Seven Words

All the following on the traditional side can be found here

1) XingYi Linked Fist by Li Cunyi
2) Henan Orthodox Xing Yi Chuan by Pei XiRong & Li Ying-Ang
3) XingYi Mu Chuan (Xing Yi Mother Fists) by Jiang Rong-Jiao
4) XingYi Zha Shi Chui & Ba Shi Chuan by Jiang Rong-Jiao

Somewhere between traditional and modern

Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan

If you are after a more updated views I highly recommend these

The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army: Huang Bo Nien's Xingyi Fist and Weapon Instruction by Dennis Rovere

Di Guoyong On Xingyiquan - Volume 1: Five Element Foundation

And I am looking for

1) Di Guoyong on Xingyiquan Vol.2
2) Di Guoyong on Xingyiquan Vol.3

Looking for a book geared towards the internal side

Xing Yi Nei Gong: Xing Yi Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Development by Dan Miller and Tim Cartmell

Many in Xingyiquan also recommend Sun Lu Tang's book but to be honest I did not much like it...however there are many who would strongly disagree with me

 

[ilhe4e12345]

Yes I mean 5 elements linking, my first Xingyiquan sifu called it cascade form (he was from Hebei) however every other person I have every trained with or talked to calls it linking…and generally so do I. It is just every now and then the brain skips and cascade comes out.

I have read the book by Liang Shouyu and I like that as well, but I have not read the other you linked

As to books, it depends on what you are after. If you are after more traditional writings then I suggest these

The Xingyi Boxing Manual: Hebei Style's Five Principles and Seven Words

All the following on the traditional side can be found here

1) XingYi Linked Fist by Li Cunyi
2) Henan Orthodox Xing Yi Chuan by Pei XiRong & Li Ying-Ang
3) XingYi Mu Chuan (Xing Yi Mother Fists) by Jiang Rong-Jiao
4) XingYi Zha Shi Chui & Ba Shi Chuan by Jiang Rong-Jiao

Somewhere between traditional and modern

Li Tianji's The Skill of Xingyiquan

If you are after a more updated views I highly recommend these

The Xingyi Quan of the Chinese Army: Huang Bo Nien's Xingyi Fist and Weapon Instruction by Dennis Rovere

Di Guoyong On Xingyiquan - Volume 1: Five Element Foundation

And I am looking for

1) Di Guoyong on Xingyiquan Vol.2
2) Di Guoyong on Xingyiquan Vol.3

Looking for a book geared towards the internal side

Xing Yi Nei Gong: Xing Yi Health Maintenance and Internal Strength Development by Dan Miller and Tim Cartmell

Many in Xingyiquan also recommend Sun Lu Tang's book but to be honest I did not much like it...however there are many who would strongly disagree with me

very nice information here Xue, im gonna look into this more....apprecaite it my friend and happy training . I cant wait till my teacher gets back as i really want to talk to him about starting back up

 

[eddie]

Hi,

I'm new here in MT.

I practice Yang Tai Chi mainly, but I do some Xing Yi also.

Xue said that he is going to meet someone in Boston, it happen that I stay very close to Boston. It would be nice if Xue can drop me a note before he comes. I will be interested in meeting with other CMA lovers.

 

[fenglong]

Also, to find more videos, look for "xingyiquan" and "形意拳" on: www.youtube.com and www.youku.com

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Listen to Xue Sheng he knows whereof he speaks!!

We had a major Hsing I master in Kenny Gong, he taught in New York City, I think. Passed away some years ago. A student of his, Tom Morrisey, lives here in the Phoenix area and has continued to teach from Master Gong's system. The site includes a listing of other teachers in the U.S.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hi,

I'm new here in MT.

I practice Yang Tai Chi mainly, but I do some Xing Yi also.

Xue said that he is going to meet someone in Boston, it happen that I stay very close to Boston. It would be nice if Xue can drop me a note before he comes. I will be interested in meeting with other CMA lovers.

Generally my trips to Boston are packed pretty tigh, basically if I'm not training Xingyiquan I'm in Chinatown eating, and if I'm not there I'm with the family at a museum, but if I see one coming up where I may have some time I will let you know

 

[Xue Sheng]

Listen to Xue Sheng he knows whereof he speaks!!

We had a major Hsing I master in Kenny Gong, he taught in New York City, I think. Passed away some years ago. A student of his, Tom Morrisey, lives here in the Phoenix area and has continued to teach from Master Gong's system. The site includes a listing of other teachers in the U.S.

Kenny Gong passed away in 1996.

Mike Patterson has a list of Xingyi people as well


Mike Patterson's Home Page

 

[greytowhite]

Xingyi has a lot of lines and differences between them. One of my favorite is Xinyi Liuhe.

Then there is Dai family xingyi which is the ancestor art to more modern styles like Hebei and Shanxi variants.

 

[greytowhite]

Listen to Xue Sheng he knows whereof he speaks!!

We had a major Hsing I master in Kenny Gong, he taught in New York City, I think. Passed away some years ago. A student of his, Tom Morrisey, lives here in the Phoenix area and has continued to teach from Master Gong's system. The site includes a listing of other teachers in the U.S.

Tom Morrissey is rather difficult to arrange time for training. I was having difficulty in getting in touch with him about 9 months ago. He said that he is only doing advanced group classes and for beginners he is only doing private instruction. After Tom cancelled a couple of appointments to meet up I started to look elsewhere. I've been training with Lloyd Day who trained with Master Gong in New York and was certified by Tom. Lloyd doesn't hold back but he does make you work.

 

[KEY IN]

This straight punch its very similar on GM Guo yun Shen fight ability
The speed is awsome .

 

[Pittsburgh Arnis]

Now....this might be stupid to some of you that have been training Hsing-I for a long time but let me give you my background in it first. I have been training martial arts for a little over 4 years now, my "main" style that i have been sticking with and love is 7 Star Praying Mantis. I have experimented with other styles such as Pai Lum, Wing Chun and some White Crane (very little) as well as Hsing-I. I have trained Hsing-I but only the basics, san ti, and the 5 elements. I took this up after my back injury due to the inability to kick during the recovery time my current Sifu and i talked about Hsing-I and soon i was standing in san ti in no time.

Anyways my current Sifu, being that he is a 7 star mantis, eagle claw and Mizongyi as his full styles/systems that he knows and teaches but he has much experience in Hsing-I including the basics, 5 elements, the 12 animals (individual), the linking form and the 12 animal form. A friend of mine was under the impression that Hsing-I besides what i mentioned already has more forms? I know there are weapon forms which at some point in my training i will find a sifu that knows the weapon forms and teachings and work with that teacher but until then i have a long way to go. Are there a lot more forms that i am missing? I tried to look on google but i was lost...i found forms on youtube that i never even heard of when researching Hsing-I and even my sifu never heard of some of them. what am i missing here?

sorry about the questions but after much studying and kicking around as well as being in contact with many other teachers and sifus across the country i have finally decided to stick with the internal arts along with my current 7 Star Mantis Training and wanted to "Finish" Hsing-I. I know your never trully "finished" with an art and thats not what i ment, i ment understanding of the full system atleast the empty hand movements.

Maybe you would be interested in checking out Tim Bonson. He lives in PA and might be close to you. I've not trained with him, but did meet him at a seminar a few years ago. Seemed like a good guy. His website is:

Chinese Boxing | Shrfu Tim Bonson - State College PA | (814) 349-8804