Here we go again...HOA files lawsuit against 90 yo CMOH winner

[Archangel M]

http://vmwusa.org/news/509-flyingoldglory

Col. Van T. Barfoot, 90, has raised the Stars and Stripes every day at sunrise and lowered them every day at sunset since he served in the U.S. Army. But on Tuesday he received a letter from the law firm that represents his homeowners' association, ordering him to remove the flagpole from his Richmond, Va. yard by 5 p.m. on Friday or face "legal action."

...

 

[Archangel M]

ooops..could an admin change that "ahainst" to "against"?

 

[Marginal]

More proof that HOA's are evil.

 

[jks9199]

Here's the thing... He can fly a flag. He just can't have that particular flag pole. And he agreed to the rules when he bought the house. He tried to get approval, and was denied. So he went and did it anyway. I can't help but wonder what he would have said as had a serviceman similarly sought permission to do something, been denied, and done it anyway?

I'm willing to bet that the "it's not explicitly forbidden" argument won't fly in court, because he clearly decided he needed some approval before he did put the flag pole up in the first place.

This takes nothing from his Medal of Honor or his honorable service to our nation; the argument is playing on sympathy without considering the facts.

Do I think it's silly rule? Absolutely. There's a way to change it; seats on HOA boards are seldom particularly hotly contested, or he could have taken the argument to the HOA meeting and moved to change the rules.

 

[Draven]

It doesn't matter you can't sell someone something then limit what they can do with it, unless you are the government. If he does some research & quotes case law he can do what he wants. I forget the case but basicly the HOA is a civilian organization which can be joined and left at leasure. More so, as a non-government enity its governing powers are only permitted by individual acceptance to such rules.

Its like any club you join if you don't like the rules, by laws or what have you, you can leave.

 

[jks9199]

It doesn't matter you can't sell someone something then limit what they can do with it, unless you are the government. If he does some research & quotes case law he can do what he wants. I forget the case but basicly the HOA is a civilian organization which can be joined and left at leasure. More so, as a non-government enity its governing powers are only permitted by individual acceptance to such rules.

Its like any club you join if you don't like the rules, by laws or what have you, you can leave.

The way it's probably set up is that he literally owns his townhouse... and that's it. The grounds are actually held in common by all the owners through the homeowner's association.

But you can sell something to someone and limit its uses. You buy software, you get a license for use on so many computers. That's the quickest example. Part of the home-buying process he went through included being provided with the HOA rules; that's required because when you buy, you automatically join the HOA, and you must abide by the rules. Don't pay the dues, and they'll take your parking spot. Or institute legal proceedings against you if you paint the door the wrong color... For more info, you might consider reading HERE.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Details aside....

When I saw this story it made me wonder how we've gotten to the point where it's acceptable to protect those that want to burn the flag but not those that want to proudly display it.

Seems like more proof that our priorities are seriously out of whack in this country. IMHO

 

[Marginal]

Details aside....

When I saw this story it made me wonder how we've gotten to the point where it's acceptable to protect those that want to burn the flag but not those that want to proudly display it.

Seems like more proof that our priorities are seriously out of whack in this country. IMHO

Priorities in this country? HOA's are just snooty people that have banded together to preserve property values. Seems like they've always been pretty consistent towards the value of their money.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Priorities in this country? HOA's are just snooty people that have banded together to preserve property values. Seems like they've always been pretty consistent towards the value of their money.

QFT

But that brings up the question as to why someone flying the flag of their country would bring down property value. Especially when it's the country they live in.

 

[Archangel M]

Actually, the HOA is twisted over the flagpole the guy erected in his front yard, not over the flag itself.

 

[Flea]

In WWII, Barfoot showed his mettle in Carano, Italy, where he single-handedly destroyed a set of German machine gun nests, killed eight enemy soldiers, took 17 prisoners and stared down a tank before destroying it and killing its crew — all in a single day. Exhausted by his herculean efforts, he still managed to move two of his wounded men 1,700 yards to safety.


[ ... ]


Barfoot's resolve is now once again being tested.

The author seems to equate his exertions in WW2 with this little pissing match over a flagpole. Rather insulting to combat veterans, I think.

"This is not about the American flag. This is about a flagpole," reads the statement from the association, which insists that Barfoot directly violated its board's July ruling.
"Col. Barfoot is free to display the American flag in conformity with the neighborhood rules and restrictions.

There's a lot to be said for choosing one's battles, and I'm surprised that someone of his stature doesn't get that. Just get a different pole, and fly it with pride. No one's arguing with your patriotism.

 

[Tez3]

The author seems to equate his exertions in WW2 with this little pissing match over a flagpole. Rather insulting to combat veterans, I think.

There's a lot to be said for choosing one's battles, and I'm surprised that someone of his stature doesn't get that. Just get a different pole, and fly it with pride. No one's arguing with your patriotism.

Spot on Flea! It doesn't show the flagpole or it's position in the photograph so it may be that this 21 foot flagpole is in a place that's inconvenient for neighbours (who may be elderly or of limited mobility) or perhaps in front of window where you can only see the pole not the flag, it could be in the middle of someones prized flowerbed, maybe he stands in front of someones window to raise and lower the flag? There's endless reasons why the flagpole was objected to and perhaps he's being stubborn as only old soldiers can be when they don't see anothers point of view. Soldiers can have a tendancy not to think theres another point of view sometimes. A quiet meeting out of the medias way where all points are considered by everyone is probably called for. I'm betting the committee probably even have a place for a flagpole that suits everyone in mind already.

 

[Gordon Nore]

This is why I would never own a condo. These HOAs would drive me nuts.

I find myself mostly with the fart in a windstorm crowd on this one. The HOA has its rules which the gentleman agreed to when signed on.

However, the old gent is ninety years old, and he has been used to having things a certain way. Suspend the ruling, make an exception for an old fellow, and let it rest.

As for the author of the news item...

A veteran of three wars who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor is now facing an unlikely enemy — his neighbors.

Tisk. Tisk. Save this rhetoric for veterans who need it most... the homeless and jobless, those suffering psychiatric disorders, those getting poor care.

 

[Archangel M]

Just heard:

The HOA backed off. He gets to keep the flagpole.

 

[Flea]

Interesting. Any word as to why they made that decision?

 

[Carol]

I'm guessing the reason is public outcry over the American flag being denigrated as a "visual nuisance". Good decision, IMO.

http://www.downtownshortpump.com/20...tion-allows-short-pump-vet-to-keep-flag-pole/

 

[Jdokan]

What I heard on the radio was the HOA could not find a law firm that wanted to be tied to the case...too much negative press....don't know if that's true but that's what was stated........

 

[jks9199]

What I heard on the radio was the HOA could not find a law firm that wanted to be tied to the case...too much negative press....don't know if that's true but that's what was stated........

Or they just got good advice that, even if they won at court, they'd lose in the long run.

But I've got mixed feelings on this. I respect the colonel's sacrifice and service, absolutely and without question. And I do think the rule is silly; I think they should have granted him the waiver/variance in the first place. But I think it rather cheapens both his service and the Medal of Honor when ithey get used for something this petty. (Don't forget; it wasn't that he couldn't fly the flag; it was only the particular pole, erected in a common area, that they objected to.) The man knew the rules, tried to work within them, and when they said no -- he acted rather like a petulant child and did it anyway. Then when the HOA acted on it -- he went to the press. Since I hope he wouldn't do this himself -- I'm going to assume someone did it thinking they were helping him.

Again... I have mixed feelings; he got the result I would support, but he got there in a way that I don't like.

 

[Flea]

From Carol's link:

Congressmen Eric Cantor and Howard McKeon introduced legislation that would allow all Medal of Honor recipients to have flag poles regardless of community regulations in response to Colonel Barfoot’s story.

Good grief! I can see passing legislation on behalf of particular crime victims as a preventive measure. But this? It's useless pandering, and pure clutter on the books. And of course it will pass without so much as a first glance in Congress, much less a second. Will CMOH recipients also be allowed to blast their music at 3am and turn their front lawns into junkyards next?

 

[Tez3]

Being brave and winning medals doesn't necessarily make people nice or sensible. We had a famous war hero here called Douglas Bader, he lost his legs in a flying accident before the war ( totally his own fault btw) and he became a flying ace, was shot down and kept trying to escape from the Germans. A film was made about him and everyone who didn't know him thought he was this heroic paragon but in reality he was nasty, bad tempered and treated people appallingly. I'd met him several times and had seen this for myself but my father wouldn't hear a word against him because he was a war hero. In my dads eyes Bader could do anything he wanted. There's no doubt he was inspirational, brave etc and what he did was heroic but dear me he was not a nice person.
We can respect people for their deeds but we shouldn't assume this makes them decent or nice people.