Hapkido doesn't use patterns?

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Acronym, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    About Hapkido – Hapkido Australia

    In Hapkido, as the student advances past the basic hand techniques, more emphasis is placed on small circular techniques and fast close quarter parrying which resemble the techniques of Kung Fu. Advanced weaponry techniques using the long pole Bo, cane and the fan are similar to those of Kung Fu.
     
  2. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I do not, although In full disclosure it isn’t a technique I use much, it is not heavily emphasized in my system.

    Different people in different cultures do independently develop similar things, so not surprising if a Korean method would have a version of a tiger claw. In Chinese martial arts for example, there are more than one system, independently developed, that go by the name White Crane. Different development, different methods, not the same thing. But both inspired by the same bird.
     
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  3. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It is possible that they were inspired to adopt some things from a kung fu method. It is also possible they are simply making a superficial comparison. I would need to know more, to make any evaluation.
     
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  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    There are movements in the form that remind me of some of the things that exist in Jow Ga Kung Fu and other systems but it's more like the moves are different interpretations of the same idea.

    For example: This reminds me of a technique found in Jow Ga Kung fu. If I were to try to grab a punch in mid air, this is the this the technique that I would use. The technique is crossing the hands while raising them. In Jow Ga we do this technique in Bow stance. It's something that I see often across fighting systems, so I'm not so quick to label it as "Kung Fu." The blocks / strikes that he does before are also seen across multiple systems.
    upload_2020-12-26_23-49-22.png

    He does a jumping spinning back fist which is found in the system that I train. The technique is the jumping spinning back fist with the legs close to the ground, In Jow Ga we leap in the aire and bring our legs up. We also retreat with our spinning back fist. But in the video he doesn't. So to me this looks like a different interpretation of what I do in Jow Ga Kung Fu.

    Another way to think of what I'm trying to explain is. If someone told asked us to create a technique with a spinning back fist and a kick. We would all produce techniques that have the 2 strikes, some would look similar but they would more than likely follow our core principle of our system. MMA spinning backfist with a kick would have an MMA look to it, Tai Chi would have a Tai Chi a spinning backfist with a kick based. Some of us would have similar movements while others would be quite different. But because we developed the technique independent of each other, no one can really claim that the technique is "kung fu" or "karate". Sort of like the Jab, Uppercut, Cross punch.
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    My thoughts on TKD punching is that many TKD schools don't focus on the hand striking techniques like they should. I don't like TKD for this reason. But I do like what I see here.




    Looking at the second video, some of this stuff is found in Kung Fu and other systems as well, but this has a TKD engine, but when I do a similar technique it has a Kung Fu engine. For example @ 1:11, this looks like the thrust punch that I do. The difference is the mechanics. He does a reverse punch then steps through. In kung fu we step through and punch at the same time. At 1:13 he does the same technique again but this time he does it more like I would do it in Kung Fu.

    @ 1:33 he does a technique that looks similar to what Is found in Tai chi wave hands like cloud. It's hard to believe there's an elbow break in this this technique, but there is.

    But my point is that, depending on the philosophy of the school I can see how some of the hand strikes may look like kung fu, but they really aren't. It's just that they probably do more punching than other schools.
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I would be careful with stuff like this. Sometimes stuff like this is marketing and not actually true of the system itself. I'm not saying that this is the case with this school, but I've come across it many times.

    There's nothing that I've seen in Hapkido that moves like Kung Fu. To say that it resembles just means that it looks like it. Sort of like how cars from 2 different company may look the similar on the outside with body shape and design, but they aren't the same.

    It may be possible that the Hapkido teacher has trained more than one system and he uses things from other systems and integrates them into Hapkido, but at that point they are creating a hybrid Hapkido system and probably should rename it it. Maybe Hapkido followed by the last name of the teacher who is integrating other stuff.

    Some schools will try to say that they are "just like System A, System B, System C in an effort to attack students who have incomplete information about systems. From a website marketing perspective. This Hapkido comparison page would also get visitor searching fro BJJ, Kung Fu, Aikido, MMA schools. https://hapkidoaustralia.com/about-hapkido/

    I'm always cautious of schools who compare themselves in this manner by comparing similarities like that. Two cars may look the similar on the outside but totally different when you get on the inside and when you drive.
     
  7. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    What branch? Looking at the first form in the first post, I actually wouldn't think it belongs to any style. Certain styles I've been in have encouraged people to create a form for practice after 2-3 years..this looks like one of the first tries on that, more than anything else.
     
  8. Monkey Turned Wolf

    Monkey Turned Wolf MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I watched the first two minutes of that, and it looked like variations of different shaolin kempo karate combinations/forms.
     
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  9. Acronym

    Acronym Master of Arts

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    Northern Shaolin.
     
  10. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Northern Shaolin can actually refer to a number of methods, so that’s pretty broad.
     
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  11. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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  12. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    The 2 main Hapkido federations are the IHF (International HKD Federation), and KHF (Korea Hapkido Federation). The IHF does not use poomse/hyung, and I don't think the KHF does either.

    There are many other Hapkido organizations and unaffiliated HKD schools all over the world. They all have their own curriculum and program, which may include poomse/hyung, weapons work, BJJ-style grappling, or whatever the instructor likes.

    Also, some Hapkido schools teach KKW TKD or some other martial arts curriculum alongside Hapkido in the same class, as sort of a combined program - I'm familiar with an IHF HKD school that also teaches the Taegeuk forms from KKW TKD, for example.
     
  13. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    Yeah, that sounds like marketing copy to me. Very few people who aren't martial arts fans have ever heard of Hapkido, but everybody's heard of Kung Fu, BJJ, and MMA. So if you can say, it's kind of like these other more famous things, people might give it a try. Like how people will describe their business as, like, "Uber for dog grooming" or something. The potential customer knows what that other thing is, so the comparison helps them understand what the new thing is.
     
  14. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master of Arts

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    Yeah, the first one feels like a Taekwondo form, though it's not one I'm familiar with.
     
  15. oftheherd11

    oftheherd11 Yellow Belt

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    I am amazed by your knowledge of MA, especially Hapkido. How long have you studied? Are you belted?
     
  16. oftheherd11

    oftheherd11 Yellow Belt

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    Well one must be careful when looking for information on the internet I guess.123
     

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