Guns Guns Guns

[Inferno]

Yes, it is true that our civil liberties and privacy are under attack. We do have this habit of spying on each other, which is a bit freightening.

However, we also have a wonderful system of checks and balances, and constitution that we have put in place that allows us to control and change these measures. There is an "ebb and flow" to these things, but we the citizens of our nation have the power to make these changes. Things may seem particularly ****** now, but that is likely to change in elections to follow.

I can't say the same thing about other, more socialist nations, unfortunatily. There are things that they do well, but one thing that is lacking is the ability to make these changes effeciently, or check and balance these things effectively.

There are many times and situations where governments in more socialist countries have crossed the line and done way worse things then what our current government has been doing in terms of violating privacy and civil liberties. And those citizens have little power to change it. Why don't you take a trip to Germany and tell their police that they don't have probable cause to search your bags, and just see what happens. Or, how about drive through Ontario with a the wrong large breed dog or secured hunting rifle, and watch your belongings get searched and seized while you face inprisonment.

So, once again, we have problems, but I'll take the tradeoff. At least we still have the power to change our problems. Can't say the same for many other places.



Well, sonny, let's not be too condencending there. Yes, I in fact do suggest you make that into a seperate thread and see how well that goes over.

I think that to claim that Americans are exceptionally incapable of independent thought is a pretty arrogent statement to make. Sure, we have our "sheep," but I don't think that we are worse then the rest of the civilized world on this. If anything we are a little bit better because we have the freedom to say and do what we want in ways where a lot of the "civilized world" cannot; meaning that at least we aren't cowards unless we use our freedom to choose to be...

I don't understand how other democracies could be less able to change thing within their countries but there are many and the world is quite disturbing so I'll take your word for it. As for being condescending, I didn't mean to sound that way, but America does have problems. In the eyes of the International community America is frowned upon. My wife (Who's American, I'm Canadian) had some friends who went to the UK as part of their University courses and they stated at least 1/4 of the population literally spit on them when they heard they were America, they were refused entry to several stores and couldn't make any friends.

I wouldn't be surprised if they looked like skin headed tattooed punks, but she's just a kind average girl from Texas. I was even a bit shocked, I don't think it's fair to judge all Americans, but it really shows me how America as a superpower is seen in the European limelight.

This is going horribly astray though and I don't like how I'm pushing it further. Perhaps we can continue this conversation (if you want to that is) in private messages or a new thread?

 

[Cruentus]

No need to take it PM. You came off condensending but as you know it is difficult to tell voice inflection and tone with writing. So, I'll take your word for it that you didn't mean it to come across that way.

And I do agree with you, unfortunatily. The international community isn't too happy with Americans right now, and enough of us act like jerks when traveling abroad to back the stereotypes up, unfortunatily. I always try my best to be extra polite when I travel because of this; to try to undue some of the damage we have done. Plus, I have been told I look intimidating as it is, which doesn't help.

Anyway, we can agree on the international perception as being less then favorable.

We all have our own things to work on, I guess...

Cheers!