Grasp of Death & Grip of Death

[Handsword]

Does anybody practice a difference in the ideal attack between Grasp of Death & Grip of Death (both vs headlocks)?

What factors make a difference between using each of these techniques (other than personal preferance)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jill666]

Can you please post the techniques?

 

[Kirk]

The Grasp Of Death
(defense against a left flank side headlock)

With your body bent forward in a headlock and your opponent to
your left applying a headlock with his right arm, initiate your
action by grabbing your opponent's right wrist with your right
hand as your right foot steps forward toward 10:30 into a Close
Kneel Stance (buckling your opponent's right leg). Immediately
grab your opponent's right inner thigh from the rear with your left
hand and pinch the flesh of that leg with a Crab Pinch (between
the poiner finger supported by the middle finger (back up mass)
and the thumb of your left hand) using as much strength as
possible.

As your opponent reacts to your pinch and releases his grip, have
your right hand bring his right arm over your head and down to
your chest, making sure that your right forearm angles diagonally
while acting as a check.

Immediately release the grip of your left hand (pinch) and have
your left foot step forward toward 10:30 into a left Neutral Bow
Stance as you simultaneously strike the back of your opponent's
right elbow with your left forearm while pulling in and toward you
with your right hand. This action should cause your opponent to
step forward with his left foot prior to bending over at the waist.

Roll your left forearm on the back of your opponent's right elbow
until your left forearm is parallel to the ground. Execute a right
Downward Inverted Vertical Punch to the base of your
opponent's skull back of his right mastoid bone.

No cover out is required

---------------------

Grip Of Death
(defense against a left flank right arm headlock)

With your opponent applying a headock from your left side, step
forward and to your left (to 10:30) with your right foot into a right
close kneel stance, while turning your head to the left, and
tucking your chin against your chest. Simultaneously deliver a
right Hammerfist to your opponent's groin, and a left Hammerfist
to your opponent's left kidney.

Circle your left arm over your opponent's right shoulder, and have
the fingers of your left hand press under your opponent's nose
(or, depending upon the circumstances, have your left hand grab
your opponent's hair) to fulcrum your opponent's head back,
using his shoulder as the fulcrum point.

Immediately pivot into a left forward bow toward 6 o'clock to take
advantage of rotational force. In the process, thrust a right heel
palm strike to your opponent's chin. Simultaneously execute a left
sliding check down your opponent's right arm, ending at the
elbow. (Make sure that the head of your opponent, in either of
the above cases, is arched and forced back and down to minimize
your opponent's leverage thus preventing him from executing a
right knee kick to your groin area.)

Pivot back to a left neutral bow and proceed with the routine left
front crossover and double cover out to 10:30.

 

[kenpo3631]

Originally posted by Handsword
Does anybody practice a difference in the ideal attack between Grasp of Death & Grip of Death (both vs headlocks)?

What factors make a difference between using each of these techniques (other than personal preferance)?

Thanks in advance.

There are many answers to a problem. These tech. address that. You are also "completing" a sandwich catergory with your offset hammer sandwich to the groin and left kidney...:asian:

 

[Jill666]

Thanks- a very concise explanation! I prefer the Grip in my reading, but will have to try both to see what feels natural.

 

[GaryM]

Both techniques work quite well. I think from a practical stand point grip of death is 'quicker' and easier and if I could only teach one that would be it. Grasp of death however I feel (even though it is taught at a lower belt level in our school) teaches more concepts. The 'pinch' teaches pain distraction. How does pinching the inner thigh make the attacker release the hold? His 'mind' goes to that point rather than focusing on retaining his hold. The arm bar teaches the leverage of a straight arm bar, and the way that you 'bar' the leg shows how the opponent loses all strength and mobility when the two opposing bars are used. ( When you are in it and feel it you know how it works) The grasp of death also teaches the mastoid as a target area for a finishing move. The reason I say that I would only teach the grip of death if I could only teach one is because I assume that if I could only teach one it would be because the student wouldn't be with me long enough to truely learn and use the higher concepts.

 

[GaryM]

Oops, I'm sorry, we teach that as you do the arm bar you 'c' pattern your left leg around the attackers right leg and straighten your leg against his knee to 'bar' or 'lock' his leg as you bend him forward into an arm bar. You gotta get your head out of the headlock and be starting the armbar before you start the 'c' pattern though or you can be clothslined backwards onto your but

 

[GaryM]

Oh and we just do a regular old pinch. It ain't about strength. pinch yourself there, just a little old pinch, gauranteed your mind will be on that spot. Thumb and forefinger. Ain't about strength, its about pain distraction and timing. When he grasps you in the headlock make sure you turn your head towards his body to keep pressure off your neck AND grab his hand with your right hand to help keep pressure off you. Soon as the pinch happens pull his hand off as you kinda shrug your shoulders and go into the arm bar and complete the bar using the 'c' pattern to bar his leg and set your weight.

 

[Elfan]

I agree that Grip is "faster" to some extent. I think this stems from Grip being better suited to be used AS the headlock is being applied while Grasp's ideal is after the headlock is secured. That is why Grasp is learned first, it takes less skill and awarenes because you are acting later.

That make sense?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Just a thought here but the difference between the two techniques one is a more controlling type technique and the other is more of a striking technique.

 

[Elfan]

Originally posted by jfarnsworth
Just a thought here but the difference between the two techniques one is a more controlling type technique and the other is more of a striking technique.

Which one do you think of as which? Both seem to mix strikes and "other stuf" to me.

 

[headkick]

Originally posted by Handsword
Does anybody practice a difference in the ideal attack between Grasp of Death & Grip of Death (both vs headlocks)?

What factors make a difference between using each of these techniques (other than personal preferance)?

Thanks in advance.

One possible way of helping you out: think of a grasp and a grip being different. Think of a grasp as just the right arm and a grip as the left hand locked onto the right wrist. The techniques and why you would do it that way make much more sense to me that way. With both hands locked in I'm not convinced that Grasp would work. Just my thoughts...

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by headkick
One possible way of helping you out: think of a grasp and a grip being different. Think of a grasp as just the right arm and a grip as the left hand locked onto the right wrist. The techniques and why you would do it that way make much more sense to me that way. With both hands locked in I'm not convinced that Grasp would work. Just my thoughts...

Good point

 

[GaryM]

Originally posted by headkick
One possible way of helping you out: think of a grasp and a grip being different. Think of a grasp as just the right arm and a grip as the left hand locked onto the right wrist. The techniques and why you would do it that way make much more sense to me that way. With both hands locked in I'm not convinced that Grasp would work. Just my thoughts...

Actually the other way around. The pinch distracts the mind and loosens the hold to allow grasp of death to work, whereas the opponents left arm could protect his groin from the grip of death strike. In either case it would sort of depend on how 'upright' the attacker was as to which technique would be easier. A more upright opponent would be more suceptable to grip of death and one that was crouching down in a semi-squat would be more of a canidate for the grasp O D. That just occurred to me, what do you think?

 

[jfarnsworth]

Originally posted by Elfan
Which one do you think of as which? Both seem to mix strikes and "other stuf" to me.

The Grasp of Death - I look at as a control technique. When taking their arm across your leg and pin it there. Yes you do a strike but from here you could easily buckle the right leg with your left leg, or right knee to the face, take the attacker over to their left side by buckling then tripping them over with your left foot behind and side of their left foot and then right stomp on their left knee, or match the hand position on their right hand with both of yours and execute Kotogiesh, etc.

Grip of Death - I look at as a striking technique. You get sandwhiching effects with the hammerfist strikes, leg checks, you could finish with Escape from Death, follow up with other extension variations. etc.

This is just my take on the two techniques. Mine and my views only.:asian:

 

[Handsword]

Originally posted by headkick
One possible way of helping you out: think of a grasp and a grip being different. Think of a grasp as just the right arm and a grip as the left hand locked onto the right wrist. The techniques and why you would do it that way make much more sense to me that way. With both hands locked in I'm not convinced that Grasp would work. Just my thoughts...

Make sense to me. Thank you - this is just the sort of idea I was looking for.

I find that the initial move in Grasp relys on pain compliance, which is not always a good thing when drugs, adrenaline, anger & raw strength are thrown into the mix. Therefore, using this technique against a single-arm headlock gives it a much better chance.

 

[Elfan]

Thanks for the clarification jfarnsworth. I see what you mean now.

 

[Michael Billings]

I use both techniques as true headlocks utilizing both hands.

On Grasp of Death I sometimes use as a "What-If" - the opponent is pulling you forward ie. trying to ram your head into a bar or fireplug (just to keep it interesting), you can see how the knee and left hand strike all of a sudden gain in priority.

In Grip of Death, a "What-It" is more the grappler attack, dragging you in front of him as he starts to turn counter-clockwise attempting to take you down to the ground.

It just allows us to play with the principles and concepts that are within the technique intended to prevent this.

Oss,
-Michael
Kenpo-Texas.com

 

[Handsword]

Originally posted by GaryM
... A more upright opponent would be more suceptable to grip of death and one that was crouching down in a semi-squat would be more of a canidate for the grasp O D. That just occurred to me, what do you think?

Yep, I agree with this too.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I don't see the attack as different, but the response will be determined by different relative positions. The attacker will tell you what reply is needed. Real combat is not a static situation so one could find themselves doing both techniques (ie. start the pincer and switching to grip of death if the opponent doesn't respond.)

This is a good place to try sensitivity training (Kenpo style not new age style.) Pratice applying headlocks from diffierent angles, with different force and with different intent and try doing the techniques. With practice you will start to do the most appropriate technique because it feels right. (sort of like in sparring when your punch finds the open target and you were not really aware of choosing a target.)

Its my understanding that the early Parker guys Dave Hebler, Rainer Schulte, etc. etc. took attacks and then worked variations on the responses till it was automatic and idiosyncratic.