Good Cop / Bad Cop

[punisher73]

I just dont get the whole "all cops think that all cops are innocent angels". Ive never heard that. Any cop will tell you stories...However, a bunch of cops standing around talking "war stories" is far from "evidence: of anything.

And I do believe that there are plenty of "abuse" allegations that are pure BS.

I don't trust most "war stories" I hear from cops. I have been there for some of them and they didn't happen the way they are retold. Cops telling stories is like a fisherman with "the fish that got away".

Unfortunately, many people in the public think that all cops get to act like Dirty Harry on the job, and even worse alot of cops tell stories trying to act like Dirty Harry to impress people.

No one is trying to argue that there AREN'T bad cops. We all know that they exist, just like every other profession out there. I just think that cops get judged MUCH more often than most other professions.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

So....what you're all saying is, "The SHIELD" isn't a documenary?

 

[MJS]

And Bob, this is acceptable why?

I ask What's next?

He was black not white so...

He was dressed Flamboyantly and didnt look straight so...

He was fat, therefore...

Why is making these judgements based on any kind appearance acceptable?

And FWIW, if criminals don't goom and wear suits, I point you to Illinois Governer Rod Bla... well, you get the picture...

And I never said it was acceptable either...however...right or wrong in someones eyes, this is what happens. There have been many times something happened while I was at work, and someone gave the cops a description of a car, a partial plate, that was disputed relentlessly by a few people....it was a white honda with Ct reg 123-ABD. No it was ABO. So every cop was out looking for a beater honda, with anything that loooked similar to the above. Cops were running plates and pulling anything over that looked remotely familiar. And ya know what...they have every right to do so, regardless of what anyone out there thinks.

The same goes for physical descriptors. I love when I take calls and ask for a desc., and they tell me it was a black male....but they couldn't give me clothing? So, what happens....any black male that may look familiar....I think you see the point I'm trying to make.

The undercover narc cops are always running plates, pulling cars over. I mean really, if you saw an $80,000 MB driving thru an area, where the average family income was $20,000, wouldnt that raise an eyebrow? Are they lost? Are they looking for their next fix? Or do they really know someone down there. So, they wait until a minor m/v violation happens and pull the car over. Even if they give the guy a verbal warning for not using a turn signal, which BTW, is a perfectly legit reason to pull a car over, they now have a copy of his DL, his car and any physcial descriptors. So the next night, if they see the same car down there again......

Does this look wrong? To some I'm sure they'd say yes, but there is nothing wrong about it. Think about this. At a checkpoint, they pull every 6th car or person out of line. Is that fair to me? Now I'm going to have to run to catch my plane because TSA decided that they needed to have me take my shoes off, look thru my bags, etc. They are doing their job, and whether I, my wife, or anyone else likes it, thats the way it is. Deal with it or dont fly.

 

[MJS]

So....what you're all saying is, "The SHIELD" isn't a documenary?

LOL! Now that may be a case of some abuse.

 

[KP.]

Man, for a minute there I thought I was reading an article from the ACLU . . . I posted this a while ago. Classic example. Those studies are biased and compiled by people who have an agenda.

So basically, it is your contention that anyone who claims anything is a problem is biased, making it up, and their view has no merit.

Thanks for making that clear.

Odd how all the major criminology and sociology journals are publishing such biased peer reviewed papers on these topics.

So at what point would you consider police brutality and abusive behavior unacceptable?

 

[Cryozombie]

I mean really, if you saw an $80,000 MB driving thru an area, where the average family income was $20,000, wouldnt that raise an eyebrow? Are they lost? Are they looking for their next fix? Or do they really know someone down there. So, they wait until a minor m/v violation happens and pull the car over. Even if they give the guy a verbal warning for not using a turn signal, which BTW, is a perfectly legit reason to pull a car over, they now have a copy of his DL, his car and any physcial descriptors. So the next night, if they see the same car down there again......

No one is trying to argue that there AREN'T bad cops. We all know that they exist, just like every other profession out there. I just think that cops get judged MUCH more often than most other professions.

Now here's an intersting situation, food for thought for ya...

We are people "with an adgenda" or a "problem with cops" if we judge the actions of most cops on the tiny minority of bad ones...

But if a cop makes a judgement call like the one above it's perfectly ok, because a tiny minority of civilians are scumbags so we all could potentially be.

Hmmm. That's an interesting double standard we have there.

 

[Archangel M]

Where did his post paint anybody as "scumbags"? Its called good police work, its called investigation...as long as the traffic infraction is valid the SC had declared them appropriate.

Whats the alternative? Just take reports and look the other way? Then some people with gripes *rolls eyes* would be complaining the cops are not doing anything about crime.

 

[Carol]

Until I moved, I was regularly lumped in with the "suspicious people." Taverns in this area close between 11pm and 2am. There are people out there that will go out drinking until close, then get in their car and drive home. Unfortunately I made my 1 hour commute home during this time window.

I lost count of the number of times that I've been pulled over. I'd guesstimate the number of times to be about a dozen. I'll be perfectly honest, there were a couple of times when I deserved it. I drive like a Bostonian. The other times...not so much. The first couple of times I saw blue lights in my rearview, I was livid. The third time, the trooper was at my window for about a minute tops, took a glance at my license, never looked at my reg, asked me a few questions and then he took off. It was then I realized what was really going on...the area was being tightly patrolled for drunks.

Do I like it? No I don't. Before taking this job, I had rarely been pulled over, and hadn't even been issued a traffic ticket the ones I sustained in my arrest-me-red Camaro in 1994. I don't think you can ever get comfortable with blue beacons flashing at you and being asked to be pulled over when you just want to get home.

But I never treated the troopers with anything but absolute respect. Emotions can be felt. I also did my best to make their job a bit easier. I've driven conservative SUVs since I ditched my red Camaro. I used to hide my laptop and my blackberry in the shadows under the dash (no good place to hide a laptop in an SUV) to keep the baddies from thinking I had anything valuable with me. I started keeping them on the passenger seat instead, which made it a bit easier for the troopers to see that I really was coming from work, and not someplace where I've been partying. Did some troopers have worse attitudes than others? Sure. Some had better attitudes than others too, such as the one that didn't even mention my then-expired inspection sticker.

Now that I've moved and don't have that commute anymore, I'm glad I'm away from that drive. But they are likely doing the best they can to check for drunk drivers and not overtly hassle the the ones that are trying to make their job easier, and I think that deserves props. :asian:

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Don't blame the cops doing their job, blame the *** holes who make that job necessary.

I'd rather have a couple of pull overs and quick Q&A's and know they're pulling drunks off the roads, than not have them there and have those same drunks smash into me...because some dumb *** needed his losers kool aid that night.

 

[Carol]

Don't blame the cops doing their job, blame the *** holes who make that job necessary.

I'd rather have a couple of pull overs and quick Q&A's and know they're pulling drunks off the roads, than not have them there and have those same drunks smash into me...because some dumb *** needed his losers kool aid that night.

Absolutely.

I get the feeling of being singled out. Its not my fault that I have to be on the road at closing time. I don't like being pulled over for something that the troopers wouldn't have bothered with at another hour of the day/night. (Especially when I have an expired sticker or something that would get me in some trouble)

I also understand that there are some LEOs out there that can act poorly. Connecticut permits mandatory road blocks. I was there once alone and the LEO was kind and polite as could be. I went through the same road block 30 minutes later as a passenger in my then-(brown skinned, turban-earing) BF's car and the exact same LEO acted like a tool.

There was another friend of mine that was profiled for his beard and turban when he went in to renew his visa. When a clerical error in paperwork prepared by a previous attorney was reveled, he was arrested on fraud charges he spent 3 months in the federal pen while the issue was being straightened out by his attorney.

Probably the worst of my friends was my friend Sher, who, on the day after 9/11 boarded an Amtrak train from Boston to see how he could help. Someone alerted law enforcement to his beard and turban. At the very next stop, in Providence, he was pulled from the car and arrested. His arrest made international news and some of the national news networks displayed the image of him being led off the train and plastered it up alongside Osama Bin Laden, and questioned whether he was the one responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people.

Personally I am not sympathetic to the anti-LEO attitude. My friends have been on the of an officer's questionable judgement yet they remain positive. They have never said a denigrating word to those in uniform, nor insisted that a LEO be hung out to dry by a CRB. Instead, they worked. They worked at and instead have succeeded in finding positive ways to address issues of law enforcement, and positive ways to get the community-at-large educated. My friend Sher in particular has made incredible strides.

These are the folks that successfully command my attention, and my respect.

 

[KenpoTex]

The OP has acknowledged that most LEO's are good people who do their jobs correctly, etc. Are there some bad apples who overstep their authority and violate people's rights? Certainly, and when it is determined that this did in fact take place, said officer should no longer be an officer and should face any other consequences called for by their actions.

We seem to be in agreement that:
1) Most LEO's do their jobs according to the law and respect people's rights.
2) A small percentage of them don't.
3) Those who fall into that "small percentage" are wrong

Not trying to be flippant here, but I really fail to see exactly what this thread is trying to accomplish...?

 

[Archangel M]

Venting I guess.

 

[GBlues]

Ok. I have now seen a few posts related to racial profiling and I'm going to say this. Absolutely police officers and the like, should use racial profiling. 100%, and here's why.

It was not an african-american, or asia-american, or latino, or white guy, or any other nationality but one, that brought the world trade center down. It was only one nationality. ANd they were of middle eastern decent. So to say in the war on terror, that they should not profile is ridiculous. It makes no sense to pick people at random. YOu are wasting time, money, and making it that much harder on the american people, to get through airport security, when you have to choose every 6th person in line. YEt the 7th, may be of middle-eastern decent, who's sportin, a turbin. You don't pull him out of line? Because it will be construed as racial profiling? You know, I just don't get it. If I'm out hunting duck, I don't say, well I can't profile, so I'll shoot that turkey over there. Well it ain't turkey season, and I didn't get my duck. Although there are several ducks in, and around that group of turkeys. I'm not looking for turkeys, I'm looking for ducks, and if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's probably a duck.

So yeah I look, and dress like a biker. It's what I am. I get irritated when I'm pulled over, but hey it's part of there job, I am the one that chooses to dress like, and be associated with that particular part of American culture. I have to accept that there may be times when I am momentarily detained because of my demeanor or dress, until such time as they can determine that I'm not one of the bad guys. In my opinion I have nothing to fear from the LEO's of the world. I've never been arrested, ticketed, had accidents, or anything of the like. YOu know why? Cause I follow the law. Period. As long as you ain't breaking the law they ain't gonna' mess with any longer than they have too, once they figure out you're on of the good guys. YOu want to wear a turbin and go to a mosk for church, hey it's cool, nobody has a problem with that. But be prepared to be profiled till they know that your one of the good guys. Simple, don't complain about it, it's America, and you have that right, to dress and be associated with any culture you choose. However, if it is not the way that mainstream society is dressing, or acting, then your going to be treated like a bad guy from time to time. Simple, that's all. Enjoy your freedom, I do.

 

[Archangel M]

"Profiling" is a misunderstood, misapplied and wrongly vilified term. Often confused with "illegal profiling" i.e. having no articulatable reason other than race for stopping somebody. I used to "profile" white kids all the time and it was proper, legal and effective.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_2_the_myth.html

If anybody cares enough to read it.

 

[MJS]

So basically, it is your contention that anyone who claims anything is a problem is biased, making it up, and their view has no merit.

Thanks for making that clear.

Odd how all the major criminology and sociology journals are publishing such biased peer reviewed papers on these topics.

Interesting how all these people who create these 'studies' never seem to come up with a solution to the problem. They just go on a tangent, doing their best to dig and dig to come up with whats wrong, but fail to mention a solution and rarely if ever at all, list anything good that the cops do. No wonder why there're so many people who dislike cops.

So at what point would you consider police brutality and abusive behavior unacceptable?

Hmm...there ya go again, trying to twist my words for your agenda. Show me where I have ever said that I condone police brutality? I've asked a few times and I'm still waiting. And you know why? Because I've never said it!

Judging by your posts in that last thread with the knee on the shoulder, you seem like that is too much force. Also I've asked how if you were in the cops shoes, what you would do. Don't recall seeing anything. Seems like you're quick to point out supposed flaws, especially when you don't know the full story, and fail to be able to provide any solution. Why am I not surprised.

 

[Cryozombie]

Where did his post paint anybody as "scumbags"? Its called good police work, its called investigation...as long as the traffic infraction is valid the SC had declared them appropriate.

Whats the alternative? Just take reports and look the other way? Then some people with gripes *rolls eyes* would be complaining the cops are not doing anything about crime.

The term Scumbags in my post referred to actual criminals. You know... the small percentage of overall Americans that make the cops job a necessity.

But the overall attitude I see is that those Small percentage make the generalization of the population at large ok, because in your own words "Whats the alternative?" (Which I would paint as: Maybe assume that whole, ya know... innocent until proven guilty, and treat people with respect until it is determined that they don't deserve it) while at the same time crying out "It's so unfair the way you people paint cops because of a tiny minority of them that do bad things... you people are biased!"

It's hypocritical AT BEST. And you know it, cuz I've seen your posts and I don't think you are stupid.

 

[MJS]

Now here's an intersting situation, food for thought for ya...

We are people "with an adgenda" or a "problem with cops" if we judge the actions of most cops on the tiny minority of bad ones...

But if a cop makes a judgement call like the one above it's perfectly ok, because a tiny minority of civilians are scumbags so we all could potentially be.

Hmmm. That's an interesting double standard we have there.

Sigh...John...who the hell called the guy in the Benz a scumbag? That is YOUR assumption, that is how YOU are reading it. So, going by your post, you see alot wrong with my scenario? You feel that the guy in the MB should have just been left alone? So in other words, just let anyone do whatever they want?

Fact is, it wasn't a judgement call. I see you read what YOU wanted to read. Did you see where I said they pulled the car for a minor mv violation...failure to signal? If you dont think that is a reason to pull a car over, perhaps instead of crying how cops are not doing their job, cry to the state to have that law pulled.

Once again, people are soooo quick to find flaws, yet sooo slow to come up with solutions. Again, why am I not surprised?

Let me ask you this. If you lived in a neighborhood, where every house on the block was 1 million plus, and everyone drove $50,000 cars, and you saw some piece of **** car with some shady looking guys driving thru the area repeatedly, going by each house real slow, would you not be concerned? Would the thought that maybe, just maybe they're looking to see what house is the best to break in?

 

[MJS]

Where did his post paint anybody as "scumbags"? Its called good police work, its called investigation...as long as the traffic infraction is valid the SC had declared them appropriate.

Whats the alternative? Just take reports and look the other way? Then some people with gripes *rolls eyes* would be complaining the cops are not doing anything about crime.

Agreed. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Do too much, they get **** on, do too little they get **** on. Funny how nobody comes up with a solution though. *****, *****, *****, yet no alternatives.

 

[Cryozombie]

Sigh...John...who the hell called the guy in the Benz a scumbag? That is YOUR assumption, that is how YOU are reading it. So, going by your post, you see alot wrong with my scenario? You feel that the guy in the MB should have just been left alone? So in other words, just let anyone do whatever they want?

See my post right above yours we cross posted...

 

[MJS]

Don't blame the cops doing their job, blame the *** holes who make that job necessary.

I'd rather have a couple of pull overs and quick Q&A's and know they're pulling drunks off the roads, than not have them there and have those same drunks smash into me...because some dumb *** needed his losers kool aid that night.

But, but, Bob, thats harassment, don't ya know.

All kidding aside, I agree with you. My wife and I were picked on time in the airport....because of the way the coffee mugs we bought while on our vac. looked in the carry on. Multiple small boxes, so we had to open our bags, the whole nine yards. We literally ran to the gate to get the plane. Was I muttering? Sure, but I knew that was their job. Had some clown brought a bomb on board, I'd be muttering even more that they didn't catch him.